Value of the DIR approach

[RonFrank]

Hi Ron, have we met?

I remember when I first started talking to you in person, you were pretty anti-dir . Now that we (the group) have been diving, even you have admited to seeing SOME benefits, even though you may not be ready to jump on board (that is ok).
In our DIR-f class, we had 1 tech pass, 1 rec pass, and one provisional. No one was unfairly judged by anothers performance in the class. In my opinion, THEY don't fail people, they clearly lay out what is expected and either you meet the standard or you don't. It was probably the most fair and ojective way of grading someones performance I have seen. But even that is not the point, the passing/failing doesn't matter much, it is what you get from the content of the class that is important.
And man, we have talked about the black thing, so I KNOW you know that isn't true. :shakehead

Hey Jason,

You know I'm not really *anti_DIR* as a lot of my posts would indicate. I think DIR has a lot to offer, I'm just not clear why they don't offer more to a wider audience.

I also have only respect for your diving, and others I've met in NM. Hey, I did setup a DIR rig, and their can be no better example of my respect for that cold water equipment configuration. I may take DIR-F as I believe it's good training. We will talk more, and with luck we will dive again together soon.

 

[RonFrank]

The difference is that two DIR divers who have never even met one another before can get in the water and put that kind of dive together the first time. I know, because I've done it now repeatedly.

Interesting. I've certainly had many a great dive with people I've never met, not DIR, and we have managed to pull off Great dives? I think O2X had some very nice dives in FL, and I KNOW Howarde (for example) is NOT DIR. It's not difficult to be like minded with dive buddies regardless of the agency.

I'm not sure that using gauge mode, or having a BP/W creates great dives. You seem to ignore the fact that a WHOLE lot of divers have great fun WITHOUT ever hearing of DIR, and they can be good buddies, have good skills, good SAC rates.

You may not want to travel down the path of DIR rules in the non-DIR forum, because even if IMO DIR has things to offer, the rest of the diving world gets by just fine without it, and it just promotes the concept that DIR divers feel they are somehow better than everyone else.

 

[Jasonmh]

You know I'm not really *anti_DIR* as a lot of my posts would indicate.

Yeah, I know. I was thinking back to the time I first met you when you were saying that there was "no way" you'd ever want to dive that gear
It is funny to me because I was the same way. At first I thought I had no interest, but when I learned more I was like "that part sounds good so i'll use it", and before I knew it I was wanting to take fundies. It seems to me that you maybe creeping in that direction.
You also have access to people who can provide you with answers. When you come on here with things like:
"In addition they fail most EVERY DIR-F individual? I've read of those who have failed NOT because their skills were not good, but because their BUDDIES skills were not up to par? As an elitist organization, they may have few equals."
and:
"While I find the whole "BLACK" thing a bit anal"
It only perpetuates incorrect information information. These things are just another example of the difference between scubaboard "DIR" and the reality. I think that you have seen enough to be able to see some of the differences.

I think DIR has a lot to offer, I'm just not clear why they don't offer more to a wider audience.

Not sure what way they can offer more in the short term. I know they are working on the OW, but as it is they are open to anyone already OW certified, that pretty much covers every diver. They only have something like 46 instructors world-wide, so clearly they don't have the coverage of other agencies. But that shouldn't affect you, you have multiple opportunities to take the class where you live. I would say to worry about yourself first, then worry about the rest of the world

I also have only respect for your diving, and others I've met in NM. Hey, I did setup a DIR rig, and their can be no better example of my respect for that cold water equipment configuration. I may take DIR-F as I believe it's good training. We will talk more, and with luck we will dive again together soon.

Always good diving with you. Sorry we missed you this weekend, we are here now and I gotta go get ready.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

You absolutely have DIR and BP/W's on the brain girl.... brainwashed really. I think you're obsessed with it. Relax, stop trying to impose your views on other people. Step into the light and open your mind. There are a lot of people just as smart as you are. You're not fooling anyone you know.

Hmmm ... I've never known Lynne to impose her views on anyone. She does like to share them ... but isn't that the point of participation on a discussion board?

Would you mind referencing the post where she said you need to agree with her or adopt her views? 'Cuz I think you have, in fact, been fooled ... not by Lynne, but by your own prejudices.

I also don't see Lynne going around demeaning you by referring to you as "boy" ... or making statements about how you've been "brainwashed".

Step into the light and open your mind ... resorting to insulting language to make your point says that you don't really have one ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[djanni]

"The truth is a stubborn thing"

Yes it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I've had two dives in the last ten days where dive buddies have been hard to keep track of, or have done things I totally didn't understand, like doing 180s and taking off at high speed in the direction from which we had come. That's discomfort.
.

This is somewhat outside of the original question you raised, but: If DIR is so great and safe and comfortable etc.. Why is it that you are still diving with non-DIR people that apparently are not good buddy divers? From a DIR standpoint, it seems that you are supposed to accept the DIR system holostically and essentially follow all the DIR rules. Are you still implementing the DIR system appropriately if your diving in certain situations that are not DIR?

It seems like a funny religion that disallows any personal preference in gear selection, but gives you unlimited personal preference as to WHEN and with WHOM you go diving and use the DIR system. If the answer is that you only NEED DIR for certain dives and situations; well then maybe I'm a DIR diver and don't know it... maybe I've just not found a situation where I beleive it to be necessary to implement DIR....

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

This is somewhat outside of the original question you raised, but: If DIR is so great and safe and comfortable etc.. Why is it that you are still diving with non-DIR people that apparently are not good buddy divers?

Because that's how people are here in the PNW. We might enjoy a good Internet conversation about our differences, but when we go diving we all try to be friendly and help each other out.

When I or Lynne organize dives for newly-certified divers ... and post a request for mentors to take them diving ... the DIR-trained divers are usually the first ones to accept. They don't try to "convert" anybody ... they just come out and take the newbs diving.

Believe it or not ... we're really into the "fun" aspect of diving.

From a DIR standpoint, it seems that you are supposed to accept the DIR system holostically and essentially follow all the DIR rules. Are you still implementing the DIR system appropriately if your diving in certain situations that are not DIR?

Depends on the dive ...

It seems like a funny religion that disallows any personal preference in gear selection, but gives you unlimited personal preference as to WHEN and with WHOM you go diving and use the DIR system. If the answer is that you only NEED DIR for certain dives and situations; well then maybe I'm a DIR diver and don't know it... maybe I've just not found a situation where I beleive it to be necessary to implement DIR....

If you're content with the way you dive, why should it matter?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[djanni]

Hmmm ... I've never known Lynne to impose her views on anyone. She does like to share them ... but isn't that the point of participation on a discussion board?

Would you mind referencing the post where she said you need to agree with her or adopt her views? 'Cuz I think you have, in fact, been fooled ... not by Lynne, but by your own prejudices.

I also don't see Lynne going around demeaning you by referring to you as "boy" ... or making statements about how you've been "brainwashed".

Step into the light and open your mind ... resorting to insulting language to make your point says that you don't really have one ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Lynne:

I was hard on you with my comments. I admit that, yet nothing was said hatefully and I did not mean to insult or demean you. My wife sometimes frowns at my use of the word "girl," but I don't mean it to be offensive so if it was, I apologize.

I think you truly believe you've found a better way and I think you're obsessed with getting your message out. Your bias is woven into every sentence you write and while I don't think you do it in a meanspirited way you tend to talk down to people.

Don

 

[goodeatsfan]

I'm relatively new to the board and so I may have missed out on quite abit of history, but from my perspective, it seems that the DIR people tend to have to defend their reasons for DIR and they seem to be getting a bashing from anti-DIR people. The supposed imposing of DIR on non-DIR divers that seems to be what DIR folks are getting accused of doesn't seem to be happening to me as much as the non-DIR people trying to impose their views on the DIR divers.

I am not a DIR diver. I only heard of it from Scubaboard and started to look into it recently. I just signed up for my DIR-F which begins in Jan, and I made my choices because I wanted to improve my skills AND also because I find that the attitude of many of the DIR divers I see here seem to be alot more helpful, friendly andwilling to share advise. Character traits that befit any diver DIR or not.

Alot seem to be impose an unhealthy bias towards the organisation for its choice of words or their ORGANISATIONAL views on the system and methodology of diving. Then they translate these bias onto its members. I'm PADI trained. There are alot of people unhappy with PADI's views but I don't see the sort of comments transferred the same way just because I chose to start diving with PADI.

I'm sure I made some generalisations in my remarks, and will most likely be CORRECTED, but that said, why this animosity? where you some how personally offended by someone from GUE?

 

[HowardE]

Lynne:

I was hard on you with my comments. I admit that, yet nothing was said hatefully and I did not mean to insult or demean you. My wife sometimes frowns at my use of the word "girl," but I don't mean it to be offensive so if it was, I apologize.

I think you truly believe you've found a better way and I think you're obsessed with getting your message out. Your bias is woven into every sentence you write and while I don't think you do it in a meanspirited way you tend to talk down to people.

Don

I'd have to concur. Whether Lynne means it or not. Her DIR touting posts generally spark a heated debate. I also would have to agree with the word obsession (especially when it comes to showing everyone "I've discovered this great training method that works for me, and it should work for everyone"). Without showing any disrespect, which I have none, I also find the exuberance a bit demeaning toward others whom have not embraced DIR (I'm sure without malice of forethought on her part, just innocuously and innocently posted). If one were only to read her posts regarding DIR, one would think that all other methods of diving are severely flawed and inferior, and that everyone should dive DIR and no other way. Perhaps I'm wrong, but that's how it comes across to me. Again, I say this with no disrespect, and I'll also say that I've probably felt this way for a long time and haven't had the guts to speak up for fear of flaming and other repercussions.

Also - nothing at all against DIR or GUE training in general. If I found that I was looking for procedures that called for that type of training, I might just seek GUE training. But for now, with the way I dive, I personally don't see a VALUE for me. (I might add that I don't see a value for me personally in taking ANY "continuing education" at the moment - I quite enjoy my no-deco dives in the ocean)