Value of the DIR approach

[HowardE]

HOWEVER, I think we ALL agree that the basic training of the "recreational" Scuba diver (OW and AOW) is just that -- VERY basic. While she and I disagree on this -- I believe (and apparently the stats support me) the basic recreational training is sufficient to teach people how to dive safely AS LONG AS they have supervision -- that is, the basic DM led group dive while on vacation. They don't have to think -- they don't have to plan -- they just follow the DM as part of the "trust me" philosophy and remember to breathe on the way up, stop for 3 minutes at 15 feet (or so) and be back on the boat with 500 PSI. (BTW, I think that is great for the industry and for those involved and I praise PADI/NAUI/etc. for opening this sport to the masses.)

With or without direct supervision ON the dive itself, I have seen many people whom wouldn't survive in many more challenging environments do just fine on a normal fun dive (ooh... look at the colorful fishies) to 60-70 FSW. Basic recreational training is adequate to keep the basic vacation diver enjoying a relatively safe sport. With or without a team mentality, or even without conquering buoyancy skills, someone with a simple PADI or NAUI OW card should be self sufficient to plan a no decompression dive using a dive planning chart (RDP) -

 

[SparticleBrane]

You can say that all you want...then you see people at the dive site or on the boat who don't know how to put their gear together. Do you think I'm going to trust them to plan a dive?

 

[HowardE]

You can say that all you want...then you see people at the dive site or on the boat who don't know how to put their gear together. Do you think I'm going to trust them to plan a dive?

Why is that your job? Are you the DM? Are you their instructor?

Most new divers, whether they can assemble their gear or not, are generally dictated by gas consumption over NDL's anyway. Planning usually isn't even an issue for them either.

If people can't breathe off of a regulator and look at their gauges, they shouldn't be diving. But that is ultimately their choice and responsibility.

 

[SparticleBrane]

Why is that your job? Are you the DM? Are you their instructor?

Thank goodness no, on both counts. I refuse to babysit.

 

[Cacia]

then you see people at the dive site or on the boat who don't know how to put their gear together

yes, you see this a lot...and hard as it is for you to beleive, it doesn't really matter. because someone shows them and then they have a great dive.

The person we "babysit" might be our pilot on the way home or our kid's pediatrician. Once, this pilot was coming up from the head, (on the dive boat) and was struggling with the hatch. The boat captain said "LET"S SEE IF WE CAN BE SMARTER THAN THE DOOR!!) It was a classic moment, the pilot and I exchanged looks that said "people...they are in there own little universe".

He could have taken the captain's loud remark as a sarcastic slam, but he was basically so far beyond that, it did not matter. I told the captain later that he needed to realize these "tourists" all are probably very capable at something somewhere else and to remember that. Acting all superior because someone does not know something YET, is so lame.

 

[SparticleBrane]

yes, you see this a lot...and hard as it is for you to believe, it doesn't really matter. because someone shows them and then they have a great dive.

That's all well and good, I hope they enjoy their dive. I was only saying that I wouldn't be the one to babysit them. If someone else wants to take on that responsibility, more power to them.

 

[HowardE]

Thank goodness no, on both counts. I refuse to babysit.

As do I. If a boat wants to put people with me, I say, "That's fine, but I'm on a solo dive, and they can join me, but I'm not going to be their buddy" I've taken as many as 5 people at a time on dives to show them around the reef.

Will I aid them if they're going to die? Definitely, but I'm not their buddy. I will not make my ascent when they are ready, only when I am ready. I tell people (as I have many times) "I will happily show you the best of the reef, and point out cool fish, eels, etc. but when your dive is over, you don't even have to tell me. Just make your ascent safely and slowly, and don't hold onto the line (with the flag - FL Law)."

I am not a paid worker, just an experienced diver in S FL, and I know how to find good stuff on any reef from Jupiter through the Keys... I'll happily show people around and even take their picture (which has given me some great captures)

Look at this classic piece of work...

or this one...

(ha ha - just kidding)
The point is. Many people often underestimate inexperienced divers' ability. Their will to survive usually prevents most people from exceeding their limitations. Whether they have good technique or not, the average vacation diver IS the average diver.

 

[joe rock]

A thread with close to 300 posts is going to have many twists and turns. Unfortunately, many of the posts are easy to take out of context - or take exception to a point without the frame of reference it was made in. I see a lot that in this thread.

While not DIR and after looking into it, I made the decision not to become DIR or GUE trained or whatever... But the people on this board that I know (only by them saying so) to be GUE trained have always given excellent feedback to all. At times do some get over exuberent about the virtues of things? YES! (BP/W for example but than a non-GUE trained instuctor at my lds did the same when I was making my bc purchase.)

As to some of the comments regarding Lynn's evangelizing - GREAT that someone believes in something passionately! I would consider myself lucky to be able to dive with people like Lynn, Grateful Diver et. al. I doubt I'll ever be in the PNW, but what respect I have for people I've never met! You too Peter even if you aren't DIR

Lynn to answer the original question posted. If DIR is truely a "holistic" take it all or leave it approach, than I think it's not appropiate for recreational divers (Peter for your benefit I'm defining recreational as those divers that do not cave dive, penetrate wrecks nor deco dive)

JR

 

[Don Wray]

My opinion as to the original question is that it depends on the diver and what they want out of their experience. The majority of the diver's I have worked with just want enough knowledge to survive and have fun on their vacation. Of course, we are located far away from real diving spots where they can dive on a regular basis. If we lived where Lynne does and the students were intending on diving at the same regularity as she, I would advise them to look at all the other alternatives. Not just GUE, but if that adds to their desire to dive, I'd say for them to go for it. Anything that spurs the desire to dive and dive more is what I want to see them do. Not just take a class and go on vacation, then show up the next year for a refresher before their next vacation. But that is what the majority of the certified divers do. Then you have those of us who would dive in the community sewer lagoon just to dive. I, too, notice Lynne frequently mentions DIR but that's her passion to make her diving experience more enjoyable. As far as the BP/W versus jackets, whatever the diver wants to use, is comfortable with it and it's safe, as long as their buddy knows how to get them out of it and where there octo is, not on the top of my lists as problems. That's why we teach BWRAF.

The attitude of some of the posters regarding "baby sitting" is more disturbing than those who are expressing their love of DIR...everyone started somewhere, not everyone dives every week, and they go to wonderful locations, spend money to dive where some take the priviledge for granted that they are close enough to the site to dive regularly. Sending someone to the surface alone is selfish and unsafe. Be a mentor not an *******.

 

[Ben_ca]

The point is. Many people often underestimate inexperienced divers' ability. Their will to survive usually prevents most people from exceeding their limitations....

I think this statement is false.

IMHO Their (new divers i think you mean) will to survive will get them in trouble...

Just being in the water for some is unnatural Take for example the nature of a student to bolt for the surface? That's their instinct to survive kicking in.... Do you really want that? You stated you dive solo and do not want a buddy... but the majority of the divers out there believe in the buddy system and the benefits of having someone by your side.