Value of the DIR approach

[nadwidny]

Lynne would have had the same thoughts about IANTD, PADI/DSAT, or NAUI if she had be involved with any of those agencies and a had access to one of their great instructors.

I mean, these NAUI, SSI, and PADI guys don't know how to dive, and don't know how to teach? Please.

A few do. Most don't.

 

[djanni]

How does DIR affect comfort?

Last Tuesday, I did a dive with two buddies. We were all similarly equipped, and we understood one another's gear. We planned the dive with a common vocabulary and common expectations. The pre-dive procedures were understood and executed efficiently and quickly, because we all knew what they were. We got in the water and we all knew where we were to be and how we were to communicate. At no point in the dive was there any confusion. At all times, we all knew where each team member was, and what their status was. We had poor visibility throughout (dogged by the SEAL team) and one of us had some equipment issues, but the dive continued without incident.

That's comfort. Everybody knew the score. Everybody could relax, because nobody was going to do anything unexpected or inexplicable.

I've had two dives in the last ten days where dive buddies have been hard to keep track of, or have done things I totally didn't understand, like doing 180s and taking off at high speed in the direction from which we had come. That's discomfort.

Shared procedures, shared protocols, good communication, and team discipline makes for a very, very comfortable dive.

So its an affect not an effect. Okay. Sorry. Later I considered that that might have been what you were talking about.

Same for me diving with my favorite buddy. We're not DIR. We don't wear bp/w's or blue gloves, we don't frog kick and we wear split fins but we communicate and we anticipate each other and it is very comfortable diving with her.

My dive buddy and I know the score too and it didn't take DIR to teach us what the score is either.

One other thing... I was a Marine once and hated the regimentation. Some people thrive on regimentation and some don't. If I was going to war I would want to go with the Marines but diving... I do that for fun.

 

[TSandM]

Oh, I'm quite sure it's absolutely possible to have mad skills (as Mo2vation would put it) and dive as a telepathic buddy team without ever even hearing of DIR.

The difference is that two DIR divers who have never even met one another before can get in the water and put that kind of dive together the first time. I know, because I've done it now repeatedly.

Diving . . . I totally do it for fun. Doing it with like-minded and well-trained buddies amps the fun immensely!

 

[SparticleBrane]

One other thing... I was a Marine once and hated the regimentation. Some people thrive on regimentation and some don't. If I was going to war I would want to go with the Marines but diving... I do that for fun.

Don Janni--I tend to disagree with a lot that you usually say. But this time it's different--thanks for serving. :14:
--Charles

 

[djanni]

Oh, I'm quite sure it's absolutely possible to have mad skills (as Mo2vation would put it) and dive as a telepathic buddy team without ever even hearing of DIR.

The difference is that two DIR divers who have never even met one another before can get in the water and put that kind of dive together the first time. I know, because I've done it now repeatedly.

Diving . . . I totally do it for fun. Doing it with like-minded and well-trained buddies amps the fun immensely!

You absolutely have DIR and BP/W's on the brain girl.... brainwashed really. I think you're obsessed with it. Relax, stop trying to impose your views on other people. Step into the light and open your mind. There are a lot of people just as smart as you are. You're not fooling anyone you know.

 

[nadwidny]

You absolutely have DIR and BP/W's on the brain girl.... brainwashed really. I think you're obsessed with it. Relax, stop trying to impose your views on other people. Step into the light and open your mind. There are a lot of people just as smart as you are. You're not fooling anyone you know.

I really find it quite amusing that those that adopt DIR are always characterized as "close minded" or "brainwashed" while those that don't are "open minded".

 

[JeffG]

You absolutely have DIR and BP/W's on the brain girl.... brainwashed really. I think you're obsessed with it. Relax, stop trying to impose your views on other people. Step into the light and open your mind. There are a lot of people just as smart as you are. You're not fooling anyone you know.

No one has to say you have to adopt anything. A thinking diver is the A number 1 priority. One way to think, is to throw idea's out there. If they are good, they last. Someone told me "The truth is a stubborn thing", and its true.

 

[bperrybap]

I really find it quite amusing that those that adopt DIR are always characterized as "close minded" or "brainwashed" while those that don't are "open minded".

Perhaps it is in the tone used to describe DIR and GUE by
the GUE organization itself which seems to be propogating
into its members and supporters.

The very selection of the acronym D.I.R., to some, implies that
other methods are not "right". This in itself can start emotional wars.

From the gue.com website in the words of the founder and
president of GUE, Jarrod Jablonski:

"Over time, GUE Vice-President and long-time DIR supporter Dr. Panos Alexakos and I came to see that there was really no way to reign in the particular interpretations of the ever-growing numbers of DIR advocates and that it would be a waste of resources and energy to struggle with them over the correct interpretation of DIR."

That statement doesn't sound like the GUE organization
is wanting to be open to alternate ideas or deviations
from their DIR definition.

I saw several other similar types of comments.

-------------------------------------------------------
Back to the original question.

I thought the original question was interesting. Since I didn't know
jack about DIR or GUE or DIR-F, I hopped over to the gue.com
website and read all I could hoping to at least learn a bit
to be able to answer the question a bit more intelligently.

It could be just my interpretation or my point of view but
after going over the online GUE/DIR material and its history
by its founder and others,
my view of DIR's value to "recreational divers" is less possitive
than it was previously.

At least from my point of view, being what I
consider to be a common "recreational diver"
(a diver that never intends to do DECO diving, multi gas,
caves, or dives much below 100 ft, if that, very often),
DIR does not have value.

Now before everyone jumps on me, I'm considering "DIR" as
meant by the GUE folks themselves, who say you can't pick
and chose the parts you like, you must accept and use everything
as it is a holistic system. If you don't use it all you are not DIR.

Sure I think there are good things that can be useful and applied
to your typical recreational divers, but for the most part I think
the rigid holistic approach is not a good thing for most of them.
There are readily available ways for recreational divers to get
better skills training that would be a huge benefit for them,
without having to jump to DIR - if that is what a person wants.

As far as the Baker's Dozen (13), reasons for not using
a diver computer, the majority of these are either not applicable
for divers sticking to NDL times, very broad claims,
or I don't necessarily agree with considering all the models
available now.

I guess in my mind, the value of true full DIR as defined by GUE,
starts to approach zero, if the diver is not intending to do DECO
diving, multi gas, or deep penetrations.

However, for more complex diving, it looks like a fantastic
way to go.

NOTE: I couldn't find a good description of DIR-F.
That particular class, assuming it doesn't require equipment
changes, would probably be a great class for recreational divers.

--- bill

 

[Jarrett]

If I was going to war I would want to go with the Marines but diving... I do that for fun.

This actually sums it up pretty well on my thoughts of DIR for recreational diving. Another way to look at it, if you put on a hockey goalie uniform before you take a stroll in your neighborhood park, you are arguably a bit safer than you would be in street clothes. But do you really need to be that safe for a walk in the park?

 

[cerich]

The difference is that two DIR divers who have never even met one another before can get in the water and put that kind of dive together the first time. I know, because I've done it now repeatedly.

QUOTE]

I hear this argument all the time, IMHO sure...for a simpe reef/recreational dive, or at the Tech/Cave level a simple deco (say 150 for 20) or cave (say 800 in Gnnie). Jump in the wtaer to do more than that with anyone regardless of training as your team that you have never dove with before and again IMHO that really isn't smart.

I can also do the same simple dives with virtually anyone with the required certs from other agencies 90% of the time without real concerns.