V-Planner

[Rainer]

I'm being sarcastic in the sense that I want to know if GUE now has a new set of rules to deal with exactly the case of finishing off the bottles early. I'm genuinely curious if a whole new set of "operating procedures" has also been issued for what should NOT be rocket science.

 

[rjack321]

I guess an agency that emphasizes all divers diving from the same standards and protocols should do a better job of updating changes to past students. Maybe they will do a better job of that... or maybe not.

Unfortunately this has not been one of GUE's strong suits...

 

[rjack321]

I'm being sarcastic in the sense that I want to know if GUE now has a new set of rules to deal with exactly the case of finishing off the bottle early. I'm genuinely curious if a whole new set of "operating procedures" has also been issued for what should NOT be rocket science.

Good question.

Lost deco gas has been a bugger for GUE to settle on for awhile. Lots of various things tossed out there and not all that clear on what is current practice.

Honestly I have no idea how GUE is even coming up with actual deco schedules anymore. And the SOP cited earlier is not much help. I'm still using RD which is what I was taught in GUE Tech1 (but by Andrew). For awhile I went to a "linear shape" but I've gone back to S shaping since that's a UTD standard and I'm mostly diving with people trained that way. I can't tell the difference on the shaping anyway.

 

[Rainer]

Was doing linear in MA. Diving almost exclusively with UTD types out here in LA, so have been doing s-shaped since moving here. For the dives I'm doing (all T1), I've noticed absolutely no difference in how I feel.

Agreed, lost deco keeps changing (and is different for UTD). It's just worth having a team discussion and settling on one method (which is what we did). I'm going to need a really well motivated reason to change my approach at this point.

 

[rjack321]

I'm going to need a really well motivated reason to change my approach at this point.

what have you settled on?

For us, we share deco gas for the full stop time (each diver). At some point around the time you transition to the next gas (or shallow stops for a T1 dive on 50% only) you will run out. But at that point you are basically ready for a backgas break anyway and have done the equivelant of 1.5x deco (1x for your time on the gas, 0.5x for your time on backgas while your buddy breathed the deco gas).

So for the case of a T1 50% only dive, doing the remainder of the deco on backgas counts for 0.5x time (strictly following the 50% advantage rule for deco gases) and you'd be done. For 2 deco gas dives, you're switching to the O2 shortly anyway so no reason to alter the remainder of the 50% shape or time.

This strategy has only gelled in a past few years, it wasn't what I was originally taught in Tech1 and its nothing like V-planner lost deco gas schedules.

 

[Rainer]

For losing one bottle:

Switch off every other stop from 70'-30', for 20' and 10' each person does half time. Stop times x 1.5.

If/when you run out, stop times x 2 on back gas.

 

[Rainer]

Just for comparison, here's what the latest UTD RD slides state to do:

Each diver does full O2 window times (70' and 60') (five minutes minimum per diver is called for), then (since the bottle is now used), you progress across the remaining stops, but you only do normal (i.e. unadjusted) deco times.

For me, that's just too much emphasis on the O2 window and not enough on the shallow gradient.

 

[Sloth]

Uh, it's not silly at all. Did you not learn procedures to deal with no deco bottles? I certainly know my buddy and I managed to kill our 40s once near the end of our 20' stop (rather new T1 divers, unexpected work due to currents, and new scooter) and had to finish off deco on back gas. Know many teams who have had to do the same (i.e. finish on back gas). I'm glad we had learned what to do in that case...

This might also be new but current guidelines are you factor in 1.5 after doing your deco gas plan which only allows for max deco of 25 mins on a 70' for deco. This was new to me as i had been planning deco gas at a .5 consumation rate with no modification.

As far as your dive back in the day after finishing Tech 1 I think a GUE instructor would say that as new tech 1 divers you should have never been in that situation to begin with. Seems like your question should have been what should you do when you don't plan your dive properly. Which is still a silly question.

 

[Rainer]

This might also be new but current guidelines are you factor in 1.5 after doing your deco gas plan which only allows for max deco of 25 mins on a 70' for deco. This was new to me as i had been planning deco gas at a .5 consumation rate with no modification.

As far as our dive back in the day after finishing Tech 1 I think a GUE instructor would say that as new tech 1 divers you should have never been in that situation to begin with. Seems like your question should have been what should you do when you don't plan your dive properly. Which is still a silly question.

LOL, 25 minutes IS a better guideline for new T1 divers. It was 30 minutes as of last year, which can be aggressive if your breathing rate jumps. The fact is, however, it's not a big deal if you can just finish off the last stop(s) on back gas. Big deal. Live and learn.

 

[Sloth]

Honestly I have no idea how GUE is even coming up with actual deco schedules anymore. And the SOP cited earlier is not much help. I'm still using RD which is what I was taught in GUE Tech1 (but by Andrew). For awhile I went to a "linear shape" but I've gone back to S shaping since that's a UTD standard and I'm mostly diving with people trained that way. I can't tell the difference on the shaping anyway.

Gideon Taught RD with a linear shape. Really his comments were that he didn't care how you shaped it but he preferred linear to keep it simple. I cant tell the difference either so I just stick with linear if the team is ok with it. Of course Im not diving past 180 so take that as you may.