V-Planner

[KMD]

Ummm ok I guess, whatever works for you. I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised for "deep stops" to change between GUE T1 and T2 depths. KMD just took GUE T2 so maybe he could comment.

Dean was more into using the term "variable ascent rate" as opposed to deep stops.

Its mostly a semantic difference anyways. Over x number stops doing it as 30 second pauses then 30 second slide, or 15 and 45 or 10ft/min ascent is really different ways of saying/doing the same thing... Shaping the deco curve.

One shouldn't get so focused in on seconds and depth that one misses the bigger picture of: How is my thermal comfort? Am I dehydrated? Am I keeping to my ascent schedule? How is my body feeling?

 

[rjack321]

i wonder if GUE and UTD will ever deviate so much that the systems are radically different and incompatible. Somehow i doubt it.

Really? Andrew has his way, GUE keeps changing there's (which may or may not be for the better, I can't tell). Certainly using decoplanner as a base profile is emphasized more by GUE although there are lots of team tweeks used after that. Andrew doesn't even demo software in his deco lectures, its all RD. Just look at the differences between Rainer and myself on lost 50% gas. There's no "right" answer, but our preferred alternatives are quite different due to our different backgrounds. I can't tell you which option would get us out of the water less bent (everyone bubbles).

If anything UTD is the more uniform and static agency across students and divers, esp. at the Tech1 level (or what UTD would call tech2, aka 150ft 21/35+50% type dives). Although the differences are even more pronounced on a UTD 25/25 + O2 dive profile. Those are much different than what GUE would teach/use for a 120-130ft dive. If nothing else the "standard" backgases are quite different at this intermediate depth range (120-130) and those are driving markedly different choices and profiles.

To me the agencies already are pretty different. Although I think speaking the same language allows us to (at least) understand each other.

 

[Sloth]

To me the agencies already are pretty different. Although I think speaking the same language allows us to (at least) understand each other.

Speaking the same language in my mind means being able to integrate into a dive team together. I don't see many differences that cant be worked out with a simple check-out dive together followed by a talk on gases and deco plans. For example I don't think you will find a ton of GUE Tech 1 or 2 divers who will say no way to 25/25. I personally would have no qualms about diving with a Naui AG trained or a UTD trained diver for a tech 1 dive. Hell most of the people I dive with aren't GUE trained but they are team divers following the same protocols and procedures as me.

Really the differences are minor when you start comparing a GUE or UTD diver say to someone that was trained solo deco, rich on right, ride your computer and hope for the best like in the old days. (and sadly still taught today)

The tech diving community is small, team divers are even a smaller subset. Lets not try and make that community even smaller by focusing on the minor differences between UTD and GUE. (I dont think that is your intent nor is it the vibe I get from you but I hate seeing UTD vs GUE type posts.)

 

[TSandM]

Really the differences are minor when you start comparing a GUE or UTD diver say to someone that was trained solo deco, rich on right, ride your computer and hope for the best like in the old days. (and sadly still taught today)

The tech diving community is small, team divers are even a smaller subset. Lets not try and make that community even smaller by focusing on the minor differences between UTD and GUE. (I dont think that is your intent nor is it the vibe I get from you but I hate seeing UTD vs GUE type posts.)

Beautifully said.

 

[Rainer]

I agree with Sloth. The differences *are* small (but worth a discussion before splashing). I'm doing about half my dives with UTD types, half with GUE types (some AG trained, many not). It's been pretty seamless.

 

[rjack321]

Speaking the same language in my mind means being able to integrate into a dive team together. I don't see many differences that cant be worked out with a simple check-out dive together followed by a talk on gases and deco plans. For example I don't think you will find a ton of GUE Tech 1 or 2 divers who will say no way to 25/25. I personally would have no qualms about diving with a Naui AG trained or a UTD trained diver for a tech 1 dive. Hell most of the people I dive with aren't GUE trained but they are team divers following the same protocols and procedures as me.

Really the differences are minor when you start comparing a GUE or UTD diver say to someone that was trained solo deco, rich on right, ride your computer and hope for the best like in the old days. (and sadly still taught today)

The tech diving community is small, team divers are even a smaller subset. Lets not try and make that community even smaller by focusing on the minor differences between UTD and GUE. (I dont think that is your intent nor is it the vibe I get from you but I hate seeing UTD vs GUE type posts.)

Eh maybe. Some differences aren't really obvious and you might only notice when the poo hits the fan. Recreationally, these are not things you would even notice.

I am happy to dive with either, but to pretend that everyone can seamlessly morph from one to the other is a bit pollyannaish. Me and my buddies are a bit of a hybrid, I am not shy about discussing those differences since anyone who is deco or cave diving (like myself) would a) probably notice and b) like to know what is working for others (or not). In fact, I think that anyone who isn't freshly minted is by definition a bit of a hybrid proceedurally since things have changed over time and people don't constantly look to High Springs or San Jose and continually change their diving to match an agencies current teachings.