Use your CO analyzers

[Mossman]

I know how this reads to me but let me ask for a clarification.

1) Are you saying that subclinical hits in Cozumel are due to CO poisoning in scuba tanks?

No, not subclinical hits, he said hangovers and typical traveler's illnesses. Every time you got the craps it was because of CO poisoning, duh!

Which means I can now drink the water with impunity, drink tequila with impunity, because as long as I analyze my tank and make sure it's free of CO, I won't get hungover or get the runs. Awesome! That's totally worth the exhorbitant price of a CO analyzer!

2) Are you saying that drownings in Cozumel are due to CO poisoning in scuba tanks? So the woman who died near Santa Rosa in March 2013 was a CO victim? The Utah woman who died several months ago was a CO victim?

And and all. Doesn't matter if they were eaten by a shark before drowning, definitely CO caused it. Heart attack by a cruise ship passenger? CO. Scooter accident? Definitely CO. Anything in the least bit unexplained, CO. Oh, by the way, Opal didn't die from being bent, it was CO in her tank!

 

[DandyDon]

I know how this reads to me but let me ask for a clarification.

1) Are you saying that subclinical hits in Cozumel are due to CO poisoning in scuba tanks?

2) Are you saying that drownings in Cozumel are due to CO poisoning in scuba tanks? So the woman who died near Santa Rosa in March 2013 was a CO victim? The Utah woman who died several months ago was a CO victim?

Of course not. I was referencing the undiscovered CO hits. You quoted me out of context and for all I know you may have read it that way. Before, neither fill station, operators, nor many divers were testing for CO.

 

[Mossman]

Of course not. I was referencing the undiscovered CO hits. You quoted me out of context and for all I know you may have read it that way. Before, neither fill station, operators, nor many divers were testing for CO.

"No one knows how much CO got into Coz tanks overall before Analox produced their affordable & portable analyzers as other testing options were not popular, so they got away with it - with subclinical hits being dismissed as hangovers and typical travelers illnesses and severe hits being diagnosed as drownings."

Sounds like a great ad for Analox: affordable and portable! Are you sure you have no financial interest in them?

You know what, I think it's better if Analox packed up their fancy gear and butted out. I'd prefer to think my hangovers were due to my normal alcohol consumption and my traveler's illnesses due to eating medium-rare cheeseburgers. Damn Analox, they've screwed up my vacation!

 

[DandyDon]

Sounds like a great ad for Analox: affordable and portable! Are you sure you have no financial interest in them?

None. There are a few others that work but I don't know enough about them to give much advice. I tried a cheaper model first and can warn about the shortcomings of the Pocket CO.

 

[Mossman]

None. There are a few others that work but I don't know enough about them to give much advice. I tried a cheaper model first and can warn about the shortcomings of the Pocket CO.

OK, but given the shortcomings, shouldn't we really have two separate CO analyzers just to be safe? Each tank should be tested twice, each time by a separate analyzer, and only then should we be satisfied that our air is safe to breathe. Actually, for cave divers, since they always like triple redundancy, they need three separate analyzers. Fortunately I'm not a cave diver, that would get expensive!

 

[swamp diver]

Mossman,

You twice stated that one should smell other combustion odors should the compressor oil 'diesel' in the compressor or exhaust from an IC engine be entrained into the intake. Unfortunately this is not the case.

In all compressed breathing air purifiers there is an activated charcoal (AC) bed which will remove the odorous volatile hydrocarbons you are referring to. Here in the US and Canada most dive shops and all fire halls run a catalyst bed to convert CO to CO2 even if an electrically-driven compressor, but in the Caribbean and most of Europe unless an IC engine driven compressor is in use there is no catalyst bed in order to save money (~$20 saving). The odorous volatiles you referred to are removed by the AC bed but the CO passes straight into the fill.

If you recall the Maldivean CO incident where a Russian diver died and about 9 others were poisoned but survived they had been having headaches for a week prior to the fatality. The DMs on the boat had changed the cartridge out thinking this would rectify the situation but it actually made the compressor the perfect killing machine. There were cracks in the intake hose which sucked in the compressor engine's exhaust and with the fresh activated charcoal bed the exhaust odor was removed from the compressed air. Not one person could smell an odor in the contaminated air but for a week the divers were coming up with headaches. Had a diver on board had a portable CO monitor the entire incident would had been averted.

Same thing at Montreal fire service a 15 years ago. The compressor was determined to be burning the oil internally but the activated charcoal kept the air in the SCBA tanks odor-free. It was the headaches, nausea, and early fatigue in the fire fighters which tipped them off. Some of the tanks contained 250 ppm of CO.
Carbon monoxide and water vapor con... [J Toxicol Environ Health. 1997] - PubMed - NCBI

The only way you'll detect the CO in a scuba tank in most cases is with a hand-held analyzer.

Swamp

 

[ggunn]

I'm sure that any destination that banned the use of personal CO analyzers would regret such a stupid ploy as soon as word got out. Their best approach is to learn to run compressors so that none is detected. No one knows how much CO got into Coz tanks overall before Analox produced their affordable & portable analyzers as other testing options were not popular, so they got away with it - with subclinical hits being dismissed as hangovers and typical travelers illnesses and severe hits being diagnosed as drownings.

Do you have evidence for this, or is it conjecture stated as fact? I reiterate, my challenging your case does in no way mean that I am making a case for the counterargument, only that you are stating things as fact where I cannot see where you have any real evidence to back it up.

I have no problem whatsoever with your checking of your tanks for CO, and I welcome any evidence you come up with of hazardous levels you detect, but your statement that CO poisonings have resulted in sickness and death and were blamed on other factors is, as far as I can see, unsubstantiated.

 

[DandyDon]

Do you have evidence for this, or is it conjecture stated as fact? I reiterate, my challenging your case does in no way mean that I am making a case for the counterargument, only that you are stating things as fact where I cannot see where you have any real evidence to back it up.

I have no problem whatsoever with your checking of your tanks for CO, and I welcome any evidence you come up with of hazardous levels you detect, but your statement that CO poisonings have resulted in sickness and death and were blamed on other factors is, as far as I can see, unsubstantiated.

And that would be because of lack of testing or regulations. When CO hits were suspected, no one had a CO tester. That's changing.

No testing means no control.

 

[Mossman]

The only way you'll detect the CO in a scuba tank in most cases is with a hand-held analyzer.

In "some" cases, sure. Not in most. Even DAN still recommends the "sniff test", though it does say that "A more accurate solution to analyzing is the use of a portable sensor."
​Alert Diver | When Gas Goes Bad

 

[Wookie]

In "some" cases, sure. Not in most. Even DAN still recommends the "sniff test", though it does say that "A more accurate solution to analyzing is the use of a portable sensor."
​Alert Diver | When Gas Goes Bad

I don't understand the trolling. A CO analyzer is a good idea, just like having your own O2 analyzer. Many folks who are nitrox certified don't have their own O2 analyzer, and rely on the boat to provide one. Good enough. In my case, we have CO analyzers installed to test the membrane output, the air compressor, as well as the nitrox compressor. It usually reads about 0.03 or so, but I've seen it spike to 1 or 2 when I first fire up the system. No real reason, it settles back down before I fill tanks, but why the hatred?

Don and his friends have done a tremendous amount to raise awareness of a potential problem, all by himself (themselves). It is a real problem, it does happen, and the solution is easy. If you choose not to analyze for CO, no biggie, don't. There is no need to spew negativity all over this post. Don't be defined by your internet persona (I've met Don, and he's just like he is on the internet, but I can live with that). Spewing your anti-rhetoric is doing you no favors. Some things can just be let go of.....

Go diving, man. Don't let the CO bite your butt. Or do, it's all good.