US State Department Issues Honduras Travel Advisory & Reality

[MarineResearch]

Any updates? The Honduran government is now claiming that Nicaragua is moving troops to the border. There is also a report of a Nicaraguan assault force rowing as fast as they can towards Roatan.

It appears the ex-Presidente's plane was not able to land due to military trucks on the runway. The government should have thrown is arse in jail. As one person put it, they were right in their actions, but constitutionally lazy. Zelaya appears willing to tear the country apart to regain power. Too bad...

A news report about 20 minutes ago indicates that "Zelaya is in communication with aeronautical personnel, attempting to land in Honduras once again." Eventually when the plane runs low on fuel they will have to let him land.

 

[DandyDon]

Discussing this only to the extent that SB members may be considering visiting the country, in spite of U.S.State department warnings and how the current problems may affect our members travel and security...

It damned sure don't look good...! ​

Yeah, the diving is almost all done in the Bay Islands, and yeah the Islands are only owned, taxed, and remotely connected to the country - but they still are, so who knows how this situation could possibly affect things there? It is worth examining and discussing I think, regardless of how the forum comedian ridicules anyone who wants to.

Some basic points...

1: Military coup or not, it certainly has the markings of some sort of a coup. I have no knowledge of the Honduran laws and constitution, but I don't think sending soldiers/cops into the Presidential home to abduct the elected official and exile him would be part of any democracy's provisions.

2: Whether he is a good guy or not is not relevant to our possible travel plans, but why don't they allow him to return to face charges? Because of his popularity I suppose, but is that not the basis of democracy? A legal impeachment or whatever they have in their legal provisions would have been so much more acceptable, and still could be done if he was allowed back.

3: He tried to land today, but the airport was blocked by military vehicles. Thousands showed up to welcome him and protect him, some problems developed, 1 protester killed, 2 seriously injured.

4: "Ousted President Manuel Zelaya...vows to try again Monday or Tuesday. A Venezuela jet carrying him to Honduras from Washington today was unable to land at the airport outside Honduras' capital. The military had stationed vehicles on the runway and the pilot decided it was too dangerous to try to land. Zelaya's plane flew instead to neighboring Nicaragua. Zelaya had been in Washington for a meeting of the Organization of American States, which has condemned the June 28 coup that sent him into exile. The ouster has the backing of Honduras' Congress and Supreme Court. The interim government accuses him of treason and vows to arrest him if he does return."

5: "The interim leader of Honduras Roberto Micheletti on Sunday denounced movements of troops in Nicaragua toward the countries' joint border, ahead of the expected explosive return of the ousted Honduran president. 'We have been informed that in the sector of Nicaragua some troops are moving toward the border,' Micheletti said in a televised news conference. "

6: "Nicaraguan President Daniel Ortega denied on Sunday reports that his government is mobilizing troops to the Honduran border and ruled out any kind of attack against military posts of the neighboring country. According to media reports, the leader said that it is completely false that Nicaraguan troops have been deployed to the northern border with Honduras."

Ok then, how could all this affect our traveling members? We have the locals reporting continuously: "Come on down; the water is fine." Today anyway.

I try to be open minded about all this, accepting all info, adjusting my opinion as a spectator, which leaves me open to more ridicule from the comedian, but I don't guess I have to have a plane ticket to discuss this here. So what happens if the airlines stop flying to the Islands because of the turmoil? The jets don't fly in there with enough fuel to fly back do they? What if fuel deliveries are interrupted? I suppose there are many possible problems that are not likely, but could happen, and could be more difficult to deal with as the national situation seems to escalate.

 

[MarineResearch]

I would feel a lot better if I could bring my AR-10 and 2k rounds of ammo. Unless all hell breaks loose, I'll be down there in a week.

 

[DandyDon]

I would feel a lot better if I could bring my AR-10 and 2k rounds of ammo. Unless all hell breaks loose, I'll be down there in a week.

I doubt you'd ever have any need for those. If anything, I would wonder about being stranded and/or under supplied. If we wanted to rough it, we'd go camping without air mattresses; on a dive vacation, we like our comfort supplies.

ilot: Have a good trip.

 

[MarineResearch]

Thanks. I just sliced 20 pounds of meat for jerky. If we get stranded or there is a lack of supplies, I will still be able to eat like a pig. I just hope they don't run out of beer.

 

[Doc]

Discussing this only to the extent that SB members may be considering visiting the country, in spite of U.S.State department warnings and how the current problems may affect our members travel and security...

I getcha. I re-read what you wrote there three times. Yes- there are people considering going in-spite of State Dept. Warnings. I see what you wrote and how it might have gotten twisted, misinterpreted and otherwise ignored by the ignorant and less worldly masses reading here.

Yeah, the diving is almost all done in the Bay Islands,

Almost all... versus where? I mean, besides the almost all portion? I get it- this is a reference to the fact that vast majority of vacationers to the Bay Islands never even over-fly the mainland. I get your point. Now a few more will, too.

Let's see. I have flown in and out of the Bay Islands maybe 35 times in all, spending an accumulated total of about 18 months on the ground. I go on 5 to 7 different extended dive trips in any given year, so sometimes I might get Roatan mixed up with my trips to Egypt, Madagascar, Sri Lanka, or the Philippines~ they have State Department Warnings, too. I get confused but I remain universally vigilant. You know, if I'm not mistaken, during the Bush administration, everything the government told us, you classified as oppressive and inaccurate. Now that they've seen the light and finally gotten it figured out, I'm all about it. Memo to self: Must reconsider against going to Haiti for diving.

and yeah the Islands are only owned, taxed, and remotely connected to the country

Yep. Pretty remote, by about 30 miles of open ocean and a world of social and political differences.

- but they still are, so who knows how this situation could possibly affect things there?

Not me, you? Okay, so it is you, thus you say...

It is worth examining and discussing I think,

Discuss.(v.) An interchange of ideas based upon facts.

For most, that leaves fantasy and speculation out of it, but in the Court of the Internet, we face no such restrictions. Yee-hah! Let's go nuts!

Ok then, how could all this affect our traveling members? We have the locals reporting continuously: "Come on down; the water is fine." Today anyway.

Before you were just telling us that local reports were just simply not to be believed. It sounds like today, that you are advising us to now believe them, but also cautioning us that things might change in the future. It might rain. Got it.

Covered all the bases there, I like the way you approach that. It's all-good today, but tomorrow it might be rainy. The Eeyore University of Political Science and Prognostication, home of Al Sharpton Spotlight School and the Jessee Jackson Chair in Publicity. That way, if they do develop and then drop the Atomic Bomb, you can say that you were right, all along. Smart, very smart. If Roatan's Bojangles Chicken should explode, your naysayers will see you as vindicated. And it might happen, you're absolutely right. I'll take mine extra spicy with double Plavix please, until then.

... but I don't guess I have to have a plane ticket to discuss this here. So what happens if the airlines stop flying to the Islands because of the turmoil?

An airline to stop flying from Houston or Salvador into Roatan because of the possibility of some stuff happening on the mainland? Oh you mean if something happens on Roatan? You'd have to have that plane ticket that you said you don't have to even get that far to worry about it, but you are ready to make all sorts of jumps in logic to get that far anyway, so why not? Your car may have a flat tire today causing you to break a fingernail so you better call off that hand modeling photo shoot with George Costanza. I see. Clear now.

The jets don't fly in there with enough fuel to fly back do they?

Gawd, don't you just hate it when icky facts get in the way of your well planned logic?

No, such planes do not refuel in Roatan. Not the ones that fly up from El Salvador, not the ones that turn around from Houston. Rats!

What if fuel deliveries are interrupted? I suppose there are many possible problems that are not likely, but could happen, and could be more difficult to deal with as the national situation seems to escalate.

Therein lies the crux of the biscuit. "Not Likely". Possibilities versus Probabilities. Most of us only take time to worry about the probable, but it is good that we have all laid out for us "the possible" as well. This ranks higher than the asteroid hitting, but lower than the US invading to restore order. Yeah, that's possible.

Your post might be fftopic: and some might say, continuously sounding the Chicken Little Alarm System Network, but until the next Huricane comes along, I guess at least we'll have the benefit of your broad-based traveling background and wisdom. As long as the meet-and-greet forum is updated, I say- go for it!

I would feel a lot better if I could bring my AR-10 and 2k rounds of ammo. Unless all hell breaks loose, I'll be down there in a week.

I doubt you'd ever have any need for those.

I doubt you'll need that either Mr. Marine Research, but Don- without using Google- do you know what precisely an AR10 is?

No? But that shouldn't get in the way of an opinion, should it?

Kind of like Rush Limbaugh, we've now seen how this could be explained with 1/2 a brain tied behind the back, and in these troubled times, repetitive statements can cause the worry that is so required among most of the unknowing readers here.

We all thrive on worry. If you can get past the liberal agenda of Michael Moore's Farenheit 911, you'll see that he was talking about the American Public's desire to be frightened by the media. The Shark Dive on Roatan was becoming so 20th Century. We needed to shake this up a little. Fear sells.

It's good to have you back on-line after your long absence. We need a good shake-up every now and then, reminding us that our complacency is more than likely misplaced.

You know, Don, I want to express all of our thanks for your taking time to repeat and re-post all of this stuff just to make sure we have it right.

I appreciate that you were only violating the tenets of this thread, TOS and Scubaboard because of the absolute necessity requiring you to keep us abreast of exactly what you have been reading... versus reports from people, on scene. This explained your defense of necessity:

Discussing this only to the extent that SB members may be considering visiting the country, in spite of U.S.State department warnings and how the current problems may affect our members travel and security...

Doing the right thing is always its own reward.

... who knows how this situation could possibly affect things there?

Not me. So far that's one in the "no clue but not worried" column.

It is worth examining and discussing I think, regardless of how the forum comedian ridicules anyone who wants to.

It is, in the appropriate forum~ politics belong in "the Pub". The State Dept warning and it's Realities and actual current happenings on the Bay Islands belong here... political commentary and "facts" from the mainland aside. As the official 'forum comedian', I got to tell you, I want my jester's costume back that you stole and wore for your thumbnail avatar pic!

It damned sure don't look good...!

That alone puts it into the commentary category, much less a few pieces of inaccurate & misleading "information" you repeated.

So, Don, more than just because of TOS and internet propriety, I would never going to stoop to calling you names. Some people might over-utilize monickers for those that make comments that they find distasteful, things like annoying, or nattering, disconnected from reality, messiah complex, Napoleon syndrome, stuff like that. I prefer just to sit back and enjoy, the true 'comedian' that I am, not passing any judgement or harboring any preconceived notions- even if they are backed by years of similar examples, or an ongoing pattern of behaviors. I always wipe the slate clean- every day.

No, Don, on this one I gotta agree, you're dead-bang-right-on as usual, I am the comedian. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0061502/plotsummary

Now, I suppose, that many people would just look at your post, realizing it was maybe kinda a bit off topic and not in the spirit of where this thread should be going, they might take the easy simplistic way out, by hitting the REPORT! button. They could then go-off spewing to a Moderator about how they had been wronged. (If you could ever put together a tutorial on that process, they ought to "pin" it as a saved thread). But, no- a real independent thinker should take it all in- even though this meal really doesn't belong at this table.

So, hey, that's great that the block copy thing is working. I've had a hard time doing that with my new I-Mac computer. Until I get a handle on it, I'm just going to have to stick with original thoughts, which will severely limit volume of my postings as well as Board perceptions of my intelligence.

I appreciate that you are taking up the slack for me.... We should all do what we're best at.

 

[agilulfo]

From yesterday's Washington Post:

Sunday, July 5, 2009

HONDURAS UPDATE
Not a Ticket to Paradise

The recent coup in Honduras raises the question: Should you postpone or go?

At press time, the State Department was advising Americans to "defer all nonessential travel to Honduras until further notice" as Hondurans took to the streets in protest. Supporters of ousted President Manuel Zelaya as well as backers of the new regime were assembling in such popular areas as Tegucigalpa, the capital; San Pedro Sula, the second-largest city; and La Cieba, the departing point of ferries to the Bay Islands.

Protesters also erected roadblocks in the north and northwest regions, and some bus companies have halted service. "This is making land travel complicated and dangerous," said Tobias Friedl, regional manager for Latin America at iJet Intelligent Risk Systems, a risk management firm in Annapolis. "If you can postpone travel, that's what we are advising," Friedl said last week. "There still could be a lot of protests and civil unrest over the next couple days, if not the next couple weeks."

If you have a ticket to Honduras, contact the airline to inquire about a refund or rebooking. Spirit Airlines is allowing passengers scheduled to fly to San Pedro Sula by July 15 to rebook without penalty. American Airlines is waiving change fees (but not airfare differences) for tickets issued by June 28 and travel by July 10. Passengers with refundable tickets can reclaim their money; those with nonrefundable tickets will receive a voucher.

Cruise ships are sticking to itineraries that include Roatan, a Bay Island 30 miles off the mainland. "We have a ship on Roatan today, and we have been in contact with people" there, Carnival Cruise Lines spokeswoman Jennifer de la Cruz said Wednesday. "There have not been any problems."

Jim Woodman, editor of Latin Travel magazine, has a temporary solution: "Forget Honduras," he said. "Go to the neighbors."

For updates on safety in Honduras, check the travel section of the State Department's Web site, U.S. Department of State.

 

[AquaExplorer]

RoatanMan...I know that there is 30 miles of ocean and a lot of difference betwixt the Islands and the mainland and that there is a much smaller chance of something happening on the islands, but man to totally and completely ignore what is occurring on the mainland would be folly.

One should add the current situation into the "mix" of decision factors one must utilize to determine if going to Roatan is the right thing to do right now.

I can say that, at this time, I would consider still going, but I would be watching things very closely and if there becomes ANY hint of an increase in violence/problems on the island I would cancel.

I understand "protecting ones own" but to say "the waters fine, come on down" without considering the situation is just as foolish as the "sky is falling" crowd.

 

[DandyDon]

Thanks. I just sliced 20 pounds of meat for jerky. If we get stranded or there is a lack of supplies, I will still be able to eat like a pig. I just hope they don't run out of beer.

Not allowed to take it in, are you? I know, Customs exams were pretty much a joke when I've been there. I think they did X-ray my bags last time, and they probly wouldn't notice it, but - I just try to stick to the laws and rules with suggestions.

No, such planes do not refuel in Roatan. Not the ones that fly up from El Salvador, not the ones that turn around from Houston. Rats!

Wow, that's got to be expensive flying that much fuel from Houston to Roatan to use on the return, including contingency fuel reserve. More dependable tho, I suppose, and time saving on the ground there.

I doubt you'll need that either Mr. Marine Research, but Don- without using Google- do you know what precisely an AR10 is?

Didn't care. He said he wanted to take 2k rounds of ammo so I presume it's a firearm, which just might show up on the X-ray and actually not be allowed in, but I didn't go with his joke that far. I suppose a comedian looks for whatever he can find.

You got me curious tho, so looked. I would think that with so few produced and its roll as the predecessor to the M-16 (even tho the 10 fired Nato rounds) that it'd be a collector's item one would not want to risk losing to Customs.

Your question certainly lacks relevance, but that's nothing new. The only possible reason for your postings here seem to be to discourage others from doing so, and it does seem to work; I get PMs from others who don't want to deal with the mockery.

So, hey, that's great that the block copy thing is working. I've had a hard time doing that with my new I-Mac computer.

What copy thing? Did not copy anything. I do know a few shortcuts on real computers, but don't know Macs, sorry.

From yesterday's Washington Post:

Sunday, July 5, 2009

HONDURAS UPDATE
Not a Ticket to Paradise

The recent coup in Honduras raises the question: Should you postpone or go?

At press time, the State Department was advising Americans to "defer all nonessential travel to Honduras until further notice" as Hondurans took to the streets in protest. Supporters of ousted President Manuel Zelaya as well as backers of the new regime were assembling in such popular areas as Tegucigalpa, the capital; San Pedro Sula, the second-largest city; and La Cieba, the departing point of ferries to the Bay Islands.

Protesters also erected roadblocks in the north and northwest regions, and some bus companies have halted service. "This is making land travel complicated and dangerous," said Tobias Friedl, regional manager for Latin America at iJet Intelligent Risk Systems, a risk management firm in Annapolis. "If you can postpone travel, that's what we are advising," Friedl said last week. "There still could be a lot of protests and civil unrest over the next couple days, if not the next couple weeks."

If you have a ticket to Honduras, contact the airline to inquire about a refund or rebooking. Spirit Airlines is allowing passengers scheduled to fly to San Pedro Sula by July 15 to rebook without penalty. American Airlines is waiving change fees (but not airfare differences) for tickets issued by June 28 and travel by July 10. Passengers with refundable tickets can reclaim their money; those with nonrefundable tickets will receive a voucher.

Cruise ships are sticking to itineraries that include Roatan, a Bay Island 30 miles off the mainland. "We have a ship on Roatan today, and we have been in contact with people" there, Carnival Cruise Lines spokeswoman Jennifer de la Cruz said Wednesday. "There have not been any problems."

Jim Woodman, editor of Latin Travel magazine, has a temporary solution: "Forget Honduras," he said. "Go to the neighbors."

For updates on safety in Honduras, check the travel section of the State Department's Web site, U.S. Department of State.

Yeah, I'd hate to hold a ticket that put me into changing plans or worse catching a ferry on the mainland. I know that they take actions to try to keep that simple and save, but I've also known people who tried it only to have to look for a hotel when their late arriving plane finally got in. Don't think I'd sleep much if I had to overnight on the mainland.

RoatanMan...I know that there is 30 miles of ocean and a lot of difference betwixt the Islands and the mainland and that there is a much smaller chance of something happening on the islands, but man to totally and completely ignore what is occurring on the mainland would be folly.

One should add the current situation into the "mix" of decision factors one must utilize to determine if going to Roatan is the right thing to do right now.

I can say that, at this time, I would consider still going, but I would be watching things very closely and if there becomes ANY hint of an increase in violence/problems on the island I would cancel.

I understand "protecting ones own" but to say "the waters fine, come on down" without considering the situation is just as foolish as the "sky is falling" crowd.

Folly? Yeah, but we have come to expect that here.

My second dive trip was to Roatan on TACA and I remember wondering on Sept 12-15, 2001 just how the hell we were getting back with the US closed to international airlines. TACA did come get us a day late and got us to Houston a day later, but seriously wondered for a while. The days we did not have a solution we just kept diving and waiting for a change, but it was not comfortable.

 

[Doc]

but man to totally and completely ignore what is occurring on the mainland would be folly....One should add the current situation into the "mix" of decision factors one must utilize to determine if going to Roatan is the right thing to do right now. .... I would be watching things very closely and if there becomes ANY hint of an increase in violence/problems on the island I would cancel.....I understand "protecting ones own" but to say "the waters fine, come on down" without considering the situation is just as foolish as the "sky is falling" crowd.

I agree with everything you said.

If I come off as being a member of the "don't worry about anything" crowd, that isn't where I stand.

If you want to quote me as saying, "Come on down, the water's fine", I haven't yet literally said that, but allow me to do so. Come on down, the water is fine.

There is a distinction. It is always wise to make informed decisions based on the realities of any situation and environment.

Unfortunately, the material being pumped out is difficult for many to de-code, as familiarity with actual travel routes and geography might be puzzling for a first timer considering travel to the Bay Islands.

Thus, every time we are reminded that something distasteful occurs at Tegucigalpa Airport, it is just as important to remind potential travelers that Tegucigalpa is one place that they will likely never see.

Yet the people that post exciting news stories feel no such constraint.

DanDon copied-off the "fact" that 1 person died at the Tegucigalpa Airport Protest. Some sources say it was 3. others state 2, some even 4. There is not one reputable new service (even putting in that category CNN, BBC or such) that attributes any such harm directly to actions caused by the military. I'm guessing that somebody got trampled in the mob. Maybe they did get shot. By whom? Will all those video cameras.... Until I hear from a reputable source, I will phrase the information in that ungainly manner.

But if I say it that way, it's not as impacting as the way DanDon said it. The truth is confusing, and sometimes not a lot of pizazz to it.

What's the message: If you are SCUBA diving on vacation in the Bay Islands, do not buy another plane ticket, fly to Tegucigalpa, and join a citizen mob trying to break into an airport. see? Not very sexy when you say it that way.

I'm all for facts, but DanDon's irrelevant ramblings included:

I have no knowledge of the Honduran laws and constitution, but I don't think sending soldiers/cops into the Presidential home to abduct the elected official and exile him would be part of any democracy's provisions.

Whether he is a good guy or not is not relevant to our possible travel plans, but why don't they allow him to return to face charges?.... but is that not the basis of democracy? A legal impeachment or whatever they have in their legal provisions would have been so much more acceptable

Relevant, but a bit stretching the verifiable truth:

He tried to land today, but the airport was blocked by military vehicles. Thousands showed up to welcome him and protect him, some problems developed, 1 protester killed, 2 seriously injured.

The rest of the material was indeed informational, useful, and on point. But then... the dissolving into the babbling wonderment of what ifs...

Absolutely and positively. Understand all of the issues that may well affect you before travel.

But... before you react either way to the perceptions of danger that you are being provided, make an effort to understand the info that you are not being told. Sometimes that can completely negate the dire warning, if not tone them down 98%.

I have a distinct agenda. It is two-fold. To protect the economic well-being and future of the Bay Islands tourism workers, and the one I always have- to tell the specific truth about the situation on-the-ground there, on any specific destination island in question.

Many people hear of Trinidad and Tobago. I highly recommend Tobago, I place it in my Caribbean top three. I also tell you never to get out of the airport in that human rat-infested Trinidad.

Belize, the cays of the dive opportunities beckon warmly. At the same time, the mainland of Belize (City) where you dock or fly through? Another rat's nest.

Manilla Philippines? A felony every five feet. The idyllic Islands lying to the South are diver's paradises- not withstanding the dire warning of Al Queda being in town.

The Middle East? Who needs it? But Sharm el Sheik of the Red Sea? Come on down! When a few years back, a remote cab stand was targeted (for some peculiar reasons) the vacationers got very jumpy. (for no particular reason than the media reports)

Tegucigalpa Honduras? What a dump. But you don't go there.

Absolutely- be informed, but before you react, understand what it is that you are hearing.

Agendas of others might be harder to discern. Some have been known to pile-on resort destinations because they operate in other places instead. The recent worst example is when Cayman or Bonaire went through their natural disasters- neighboring resorts and islands came alive with chatter about how bad it was in the afflicted areas- and why they themselves were up and running.

Agendas? Some folks have the need to be the focus of attention through being the first one to post the most sensational- even if the relevance is questionable. Spend more time on SCUBA Board and that will start to become more clear.

In the end, you will make the decision. Many people are just as happy with lesser quality of diving, and for them, this is a no-brainer. DanDon's descent to 182' on air could have been done anywhere, you don't need to come to Roatan or the Bay Islands to gain that experience. The Caribbean's inexpensive air fares (as compared to the South Pacific) are a big draw. When a Caribbean diver wants to see "the best of what's left", Roatan is #1 in my top 3. Jamaica is nice.

Consider sources well. DanDon is an inveterate safety conscious guy. He's got all the i's and t's taken care of. Unlike most of us who have survived years of diving without one, DanDon goes nowhere without his "my little Pony" Tank... yet somehow he had an "oops" to 182 feet. We all have different learning styles- just as we all have different "teaching" or communication styles. He obviously, takes great pains to avoid certain "risks" whether probable or not... and others- well, not so much- like that thing about the "182' oops".

My mom always cautioned me to wear my galoshes. Then, I slowly began to be able to tell myself if it was going to rain, or if I really cared that a sprinkle might possibly occur.

Get the facts, but understand the facts.