Upcoming New Fins and Fin Technologies

[glassbottom]

Hey Glassbottom;

I am glad I did not steer you wrong on the Master Frogs! One of the absolute gems, best all-around out there, and not too well known. I am think of grabbing an extra pair off of Amazon before they are not available any more. I am not sure but I think the Ara blade is not quite as big. ALSO please let me know if the Ara bungee straps work. I use the Divegearexpress spring straps. My wife bought a pair of Mares bungees which are great when the fins are on her foot, but sometimes fall off of the knobs on the fins when they are not on.

I travel with mine, but I take all my gear and sometimes pay overweight. If I am paying to go to to a once in a lifetime place, I pay a little extra to have my best gear with me.

Dan, the orthotic idea is great, never thought of that. I have a couple around the house and might try one.

Thanks for the recommendation! Im glad they worked out better than I expected, everything I wanted in a fin.

This was my concern too, and when their site didn't have the fin dimensions I balked at the Ara's.

These are the bungee straps I bought:

Cressi Elastic Bungee System for Reaction, Frog Plus, Ara, Pro Light, Universal Fins Ara - Pro Light - Universal Small/Medium - Medium/Large BZ150005

Just from Amazon. It says universal but the dang things don't come with instructions and while ive only looked at them for 5 minutes the don't SEEM to fit. I don't claim to be the smartest dude but im usually not awful at puzzles/assembling stuff. I was going to give it one more go before RMA and shipping them back to amazon tonight/tomorrow.

These straps would work but I cant find them anywhere. They seem discontinued.



Not sure what ill do in that regard. But the pull straps are fine really I suppose. Just really wanted the ease and fit of a bungee system, especially since I have a tendancy to over-tighten my fins and then have to loosen/re-adjust them mid-dive.

 

[guyharrisonphoto]

Revan,

I want to thank you for your post and that absolutely amazing fin design. It's great that people at the bleeding edge of diving tech are here to post I am amazed there are any nay-sayers when this thread is all about new fin technologies. I only hope that one day I can get to try a pair. Like Dan, I can see many critters that these would really help me video. And yes, I would not use to shoot the seahorses!

---------- Post added October 13th, 2015 at 01:27 PM ----------

Glassbottom,

Thanks for the update on the straps, let me know if you can make them work.

 

[REVAN]

Johnny,
I put the Dol-Fin on this thread --not because I think it is the RIGHT fin for most divers...but because it is the first real evolution of tired old fin technology, in decades.

The evolutionary path of fins may well develop a good bit farther from here as well. The guy that created the Dol-Fin, has been working on multiple bi-fin designs...these borrow heavily from the amazing efficiency and dolphin like kick shape of the Dol-Fin...they use his new technologies...
With his bi-fins ( one fin for each foot, and they can kick independently) there is a dramatic increase in performance for dolphin kick and flutter....the first interation bi fins were able to frog kick ok...but were not up to frog kicking perfection like a Jet or F1...not quite enough push per kick with this type of coordination. I know Ron will be evolving this much further, and I hope to try his next generation versions soon. They did reverse kick just fine.

Personally, I like having my DiveR fins, my Excellerating force Fins, my Jetfins and my Hollis F1 fins, along with a pair of Carbon Mustang C4 fins....and several others---so that depending on the type of dive I want to do for any given trip, I can use the best fins for the job.

I do see myself getting a Dol-Fin with the maximum leverage possible, to use on some of the dives with my scooter buddies. Ron also makes a wing you can mount a video camera on, and hold in front of you in the superman position, and this creates a "steadycam-like" base, for the camera, along with something like the pectoral fin potential of a dolphin or shark. You could also mount a compass to it ( although the idea is to keep it hydrodynamically slick, so maybe this would be a mistake unless Ron could shape the wing to have a recessed place for the compass...and maybe for a gopro also!).

I've been working on bi-fins for a while now. I think they are working really well, but it is still too soon to go into details right now; maybe next year....

It will have some technology features of the my DOL-Fin Pilot monofin, but it is also very different, as you can imagine it must be since it is a bi-fin. It will have a lot of new tech if it ever makes it to market. The good news is that the performance ROCKS, but I've still got a lot of testing to do before considering selling anything. The bad news is that it isn't going to be a cheap fin. It will be hand made in the USA, and therefore must be priced accordingly. Like healthcare, college tuition and Disneyland/world, this is a domestic product, and americans are usually shocked when they see the price for a domestic product when they are accustomed to buying things made by robots run by low-wage operators in SE Asia.

 

[gkrane]

Hey Glassbottom;

I am glad I did not steer you wrong on the Master Frogs! One of the absolute gems, best all-around out there, and not too well known. I am think of grabbing an extra pair off of Amazon before they are not available any more. I am not sure but I think the Ara blade is not quite as big. ALSO please let me know if the Ara bungee straps work. I use the Divegearexpress spring straps. My wife bought a pair of Mares bungees which are great when the fins are on her foot, but sometimes fall off of the knobs on the fins when they are not on.

I travel with mine, but I take all my gear and sometimes pay overweight. If I am paying to go to to a once in a lifetime place, I pay a little extra to have my best gear with me.

Dan, the orthotic idea is great, never thought of that. I have a couple around the house and might try one.

I looked at the measurements between the 2 and if I am correct the ARA EBS is 1 inch shorter and 2 inches wider than the originals. Do the bungee straps seem durable?

 

[glassbottom]

I looked at the measurements between the 2 and if I am correct the ARA EBS is 1 inch shorter and 2 inches wider than the originals. Do the bungee straps seem durable?

Where did you find measurements, I couldn't even find them on Cressi's site.

The bungee straps do seem durable if taken care of. They are basically spearfishing bands with an ankle support and attchments for the fin.

 

[gkrane]

I looked at the dimensions for both of them on amazon. I could be mistaken on the sizes.

 

[glassbottom]

Glassbottom,

Thanks for the update on the straps, let me know if you can make them work.

Guy,

The EBS straps were a no go. They are getting returned.


These do work

Amazon.com : Super Grip Spring Fin Straps for most Standard Fins - Stainless Steel, Scuba Dive Diving Divers Fin Straps, Largel 13.75 Inch not stretched to 20.5 stretched : Diving Swim Fins : Sports & Outdoors

The little screw in crossbar works perfect to make sure the strap stays on. The large seems to work with minimal pressure on my heel with booties on. I dont forsee them being a problem but if they are i may just exchange them for mediums for a snugger fit. Im going to try them out this weekend, maybe in a pool.

they are metal, so likely make the fins a bit negatively bouyant. Not sure how much i will like them in that regard.

 

[guyharrisonphoto]

Thanks, Glassbottom, I might give those a try.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

Dan and other Force Fin users:

I did an experiment on my dive yesterday, and reported it in the Vintage Scuba Supply forum, involving Force Fins. Here is the report:

Date: October 21, 2015
Dive Site: High Rocks, Clackamas River
Entrance Time: 1:04 PM Exit Time: !1:35 PM Bottom Time: 31 minutes

Dive Plan:

Use the Dacor Nautilus CVS, dive flag/float, and sandwiched Force Fins (one tied on the back of the other) along with my scoop fin to test the Force Fins in this configuration. The Force Fin does not have any push against the water in the “up-stroke,” and so looses all momentum on that part of the stroke. I want to test it as if it were a double-fin, with the two fin blades matched to provide power on both the up- and down-stroke.

Observations:
I had my knife just in case the tied Force Fins caused any trouble, and put on my scoop fin first, then the Force Fin combo. That was because I was basically standing on one of the foot pockets, and I didn’t want to trip. The float’s line was out, and I tied it to my waist belt brass buckle, then put my mask on, gloves and was ready to dive. I went about flooding the Nautilus CVS, which took about a minute, then from a sitting position simply leaned forward with the river current (which was an upstream current here) and submerged. I turned on my left side, and purged the remaining air out of the Nautilus CVS by opening the water intake valve, and pushing up on the overpressure relief valve’s lever to open that valve. I felt myself getting heavier, and so started swimming.

Surprisingly, or maybe not surprisingly, the Force Fin in this configuration performed very well. It had “heft” on both the upstroke and downstroke, and was at least equivalent to my Scoop Fin. I noticed that the freshwater sponge is breaking up for the winter as I passed over the rocks into deeper water. I had complete control with the Force Fin combo on my right foot and my scoop fin an my left foot. I swam with the current under the rapids (the current travels at 90 degrees to the overhead rapids), and only felt the line of the float tugging at me, and so let out more line from the carrier in my hand.

I went deeper, approximately 20 feet down, and knelt on the bottom as I was heavier with the depth. I opened the water intake valve of the Nautilus CVS, added air to the unit until I was neutrally buoyant, then closed the valve. I then checked my tank pressure; it was at about 1200 psig. I started out with 1500 psig, as this was the second dive on this tank and I wanted to use it all down to just a few hundred pounds. I will store that tank for a while now with only a few hundred pounds, as I am leery of these AL80 tanks.

I was downstream further than I wanted, and visibility was about 20 feet. I started swimming upstream, and testing different kicks with the Force Fin combo. I did some frog kicking, and found that the Force Fins worked well on both styles of this kick. I did a dolphin (not ideal with the Nautilus CVS, due to its different weight characteristics), and that worked well too.

As I was going upstream, I came across a school of fish, probably shad, that were at least a foot long. There must have been several hundred of them in front of me.

I was kicking against the current, which was at least two knots at that point, and get up to the car wreck. I held onto the wreck by gripping a tree that was over the wreck with my knees, then tightened the left shoulder strap on the Nautilus CVS. The unit, especially when in the dolphin kick, tended to move a bit.

Turning downstream, I decided to do some kicking with the current to see what this fin combination would do, and I went quite fast forward. Then, I slowed down and hovered in the current, letting it take me downstream. The Force Fin combo again performed very well.

I had been underwater about 20 minutes now, and looked at my pressure gauge; it read 500 psig. I decided to swim just a bit further underwater, then surface. I didn’t see much else interesting, and so after a minute or so swam to the surface. The Nautilus CVS doesn’t change volume as the pressure decreases; the excessive pressure simply vents out of the overpressure relief valve. Once on the surface, I again looked at my gauge, and had about 300 psig left. I switched to my snorkel, then opened the water inlet valve and used the Nautilus regulator to add air into the unit, displacing the water, until bubbles were emitted from the water inlet valve. This let me know that almost all the water was out, and I closed that valve.

I was now very buoyant, and tested the fin combinations on the surface. Again, the Force Fin combo performed admirably, both surface swimming face-down and on my back with the Nautilus CVS lifting my upper body out of the water. I snorkeled down to my exit point, removed my fins (I like the Force Fins for this aspect, as they are easier to take off than the Mares Avanti foot pocket, which is what my scoop fins are made from), and climbed out of the water.

The trip back to the car was uneventful, but a good exercise as I needed to pack all that weight up from the river to the road over 100 feet above me.

Read more: Dacor Nautilus CVS | Vintage Scuba Diving Community Forum

I'll talk about the scoop fins I use later, but as I have used them for over 30 years, they are not really new; just home made, and work very well. Photo will come later.

SeaRat

 

[John C. Ratliff]

Here is the Force Fin Combo that I tested on Wednesday, October 21, 2015. I simply tied two Force Fins together using twine for the lashing, as I was not sure whether I really wanted this combo on my foot in open water. I thought I might have to cut it off if there were to be a problem; that did not happen.

In fact, the Force Fin combo really performed well. My problem with Force Fins is that they don't have any "purchase" on the water on the upstroke. I have been diving for many, many years (see the photo of me ), and the upstroke of my legs are very useful for balancing the downstroke on the other leg. Without it, I find myself not being able to stabilize easily, and having to compensate for the lack of power of the Force Fin. But with this Force Fin combo, there is balance and purchase on the water on both strokes. All kicks worked well (normal swimming "flutter" kick, frog kicks (two styles, with the top of the foot and the bottom of the foot), hoover kick, and dolphin kick).

This Force Fin combo is much like the use of their rear fins by some pinnipeds (seals, sea lions and elephant seals). Take a look at this Merlin Perkins, Wild Kingdom story, World of Pinnipeds:
[video=youtube;SM0cC5P66rI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SM0cC5P66rI[/video]
You can also see the use of the blue sharks' tail fins in this vintage video (1970s). This would be similar to the DolFin mentioned previously here (which is actually more based upon whale fins, but similar in concept).

The obvious downside of the Force Fin combo is that there is this down-facing fin. This is a handicap when trying to walk with these fins. Force Fins are famous for allowing easy walking; I've even climbed out on rocks while wearing Force Fins. But in this case, walking backwards would be the only means of easy walking on a shore or deck.

I have included photos of one of my first versions of the scoop fin, from about 1971, and the current one I'm using. This is a DIY project, which involves removing the inner flat blade and replacing it with a rubberized fabric or sheet material that forms a "scoop" on the fin's blade. This has many advantages, even over current fins, as it channels the water effectives toward the rear, and provides a better angle of attack on the water for the diver.



SeaRat

PS, that photo of me shows me using a set of independent double 52s, which each have their own first stage hooked into a single Scubapro A.I.R. I second stage (one of the few second stages which accepts two LP hoses). My scoop fins are hooked onto the equipment strap on my Para-Sea BC, which I patented and never sold.