Upcoming New Fins and Fin Technologies

[JohnnyC]

So I watched the video. First, the diver is sculling to turn. I just don't do that. I don't use my hands for anything unless it's holding a light or a reel (or some form of work lest you get pedantic on me). Second, any turn without sculling requires twisting and some form of forward motion. Again, I don't do this and this doesn't appeal to me at all.

Dolphins aren't photographers, dolphins don't have to contend with buoyancy quite like humans do. Dolphins don't have issues with work of breathing in alternative positions. The comparison to anything other than forward motion and movement derived from therein is moot.

The look like great fins if you want to swim forward, or don't mind having to twist and contort and scull to turn. They look efficient in a straight line. That doesn't mean they're great for everything. It's like the Force Fins, there are some rabid fans trying to shoehorn them into every aspect of diving, and there's no place for it. These Dolfin things look great, but are useless for the type of diving I do, even shallow reef diving. If all I ever wanted to do was cover a lot of ground, I'd certainly look at these, but especially after watching that video, don't try and compare the flexibility and maneuverability of a pair of traditional fins to this.

I'd love to see him sell a ton, I'm always for local businesses doing well (Old Pueblo represent), but I won't be buying any because they just don't fit the type of diving I do. That's not to say they're wrong, or a gimmick, or anything like that, but the end-all-be-all they are not. Same with Force Fins.

 

[Centrals]

I would say using a small scaffolding like 4 leg tripod, that can hang the camera and shoot...and can be picked up and shot with if any movement occurs...fins should be jets, F1's, Excellerating Force Fins, or ALMOST ANY FIN, provided the diver is skilled with them. If you don't need to kick, the fin choice is not too important Silting the shot up would be the worst problem I can imagine, so each diver doing the pygmy shoot, will need to figure out which fins are the easiest for them to NOT silt with.

I don't shoot but watching divers taking photo on pygmy horses are always amusing.

 

[gkrane]

The dol-fins look really cool. However, I can't see myself using them unless I had a pair of pectoral fins and a dorsal fin to accompany them. They seem amazing in a straight line but I'm not sure if I have ever dove in a straight line. I have been swimming using 2 legs for 40+ years and I think it may be too late for me to change my ways.

 

[danvolker]

So I watched the video. First, the diver is sculling to turn. I just don't do that. I don't use my hands for anything unless it's holding a light or a reel (or some form of work lest you get pedantic on me). Second, any turn without sculling requires twisting and some form of forward motion. Again, I don't do this and this doesn't appeal to me at all.

Dolphins aren't photographers, dolphins don't have to contend with buoyancy quite like humans do. Dolphins don't have issues with work of breathing in alternative positions. The comparison to anything other than forward motion and movement derived from therein is moot.

The look like great fins if you want to swim forward, or don't mind having to twist and contort and scull to turn. They look efficient in a straight line. That doesn't mean they're great for everything. It's like the Force Fins, there are some rabid fans trying to shoehorn them into every aspect of diving, and there's no place for it. These Dolfin things look great, but are useless for the type of diving I do, even shallow reef diving. If all I ever wanted to do was cover a lot of ground, I'd certainly look at these, but especially after watching that video, don't try and compare the flexibility and maneuverability of a pair of traditional fins to this.

I'd love to see him sell a ton, I'm always for local businesses doing well (Old Pueblo represent), but I won't be buying any because they just don't fit the type of diving I do. That's not to say they're wrong, or a gimmick, or anything like that, but the end-all-be-all they are not. Same with Force Fins.

Johnny,
I put the Dol-Fin on this thread --not because I think it is the RIGHT fin for most divers...but because it is the first real evolution of tired old fin technology, in decades.

The evolutionary path of fins may well develop a good bit farther from here as well. The guy that created the Dol-Fin, has been working on multiple bi-fin designs...these borrow heavily from the amazing efficiency and dolphin like kick shape of the Dol-Fin...they use his new technologies...
With his bi-fins ( one fin for each foot, and they can kick independently) there is a dramatic increase in performance for dolphin kick and flutter....the first interation bi fins were able to frog kick ok...but were not up to frog kicking perfection like a Jet or F1...not quite enough push per kick with this type of coordination. I know Ron will be evolving this much further, and I hope to try his next generation versions soon. They did reverse kick just fine.

Personally, I like having my DiveR fins, my Excellerating force Fins, my Jetfins and my Hollis F1 fins, along with a pair of Carbon Mustang C4 fins....and several others---so that depending on the type of dive I want to do for any given trip, I can use the best fins for the job.

I do see myself getting a Dol-Fin with the maximum leverage possible, to use on some of the dives with my scooter buddies. Ron also makes a wing you can mount a video camera on, and hold in front of you in the superman position, and this creates a "steadycam-like" base, for the camera, along with something like the pectoral fin potential of a dolphin or shark. You could also mount a compass to it ( although the idea is to keep it hydrodynamically slick, so maybe this would be a mistake unless Ron could shape the wing to have a recessed place for the compass...and maybe for a gopro also!).

 

[gkrane]

Dan your carbon mustang fins look like a cycling shoe meets a short freediving fin.

 

[glassbottom]

Please give me a report after you get to try them. I am really looking for a new pair of fins for my wife. I am also always looking for a better travel fin.

So I finally got my new master frogs out for a whirl this weekend in between cold fronts and sheddings from the recent atlantic storms.

I will say im not an in shape guy, I can jog a mile or so but not much more (I should probably rectify that.). But I did play a lot of basketball into my 20's so I do have reasonable leg strength despite my more recent upper body girth.


The fins are great. They are a bit bigger and wider than the splits I have been diving (which were a gift from my wife).


Heres a picture to compare relative size. Keep in mind I wear a 12-13 shoe. My booties are a 3mm size mens 13.



However given the composite material for the fin they are pretty much neutral in salt water. Which has really helped my trim a bit. The spits were REALLY negative and heavy.


As for power I love them. not only did a scuba dive with them but also did a bit of free diving, got down to 20 feet without issue, maybe a kick or two to get down.


The conditions were kinda rough for what im used to. 2-4 foot seas, current running south->north at .25-.5 knot maybe a little more (this is pretty fast for me), with the surf whitecapping and running north->south. There were a couple times waiting to get on that I got a little distracted scanning beneath me and got 50 yds or more downcurrent from the boat, but it was nothing to get back. Several fin kicks and I was there.


On the bottom I finally had plenty of power with the frog kick. I was able to easily fight swim against the current. It was amazing being able to frog kick finally.

For sizing I used the size chart on Amazon, which recommended an XL for my shoe/bootie size. The fins are a little roomy, and the straps need to be cranked pretty much all the way down. So the fins seem to run a little big. Its not a-typical of me to overtighten the fin strap and give myself cramps in my feet/arch. This was no exception but once I adjusted the tension and realized I they were secure even though I could barely feel them I was fine (which is a good thing, im just used to having a practical cinder block on my foot with my last fins).

My dive buddy opted for his Cressi Gara free dive fins due to the current, I had no issue keeping up with him as we spearfished.


All in all, 8-10, love the fins, need to get used to the fit but these seem like a decent cross between a scuba and free dive fin and I love that. I love the power, stiffness and lightweight material. I do wish I could find bungee straps for them, I ordered some cressi bungee straps but I don't think they are compatible. The type that used to be seem to be discontinued and the kind I got are likely for the Ara.

The ara come with bungee straps and this cost is about what equals the price difference. Im not returning the master frogs (as I still cant find the ara in my size with the stiff blade) but once I find some right sized bungee straps I think they will be a solid 10/10.

Edit: I'm torn as to whether they would be a good travel fin. They don't easily fit into my dive bag (I carried them in their own mesh bag with along with my mask) but they are light and I can see them being used for more than just scuba, but snorkeling and free diving as well. But due to their size they may not be the best travel fin.

 

[gkrane]

Thanks for the report glassbottom. I think I may have to grab a pair. They make a softer version that I may get for my wife as she needs some new fins that can handle current.

 

[danvolker]

So I finally got my new master frogs out for a whirl this weekend in between cold fronts and sheddings from the recent atlantic storms.

I will say im not an in shape guy, I can jog a mile or so but not much more (I should probably rectify that.). But I did play a lot of basketball into my 20's so I do have reasonable leg strength despite my more recent upper body girth.


The fins are great. They are a bit bigger and wider than the splits I have been diving (which were a gift from my wife).


Heres a picture to compare relative size. Keep in mind I wear a 12-13 shoe. My booties are a 3mm size mens 13. View attachment 217863



However given the composite material for the fin they are pretty much neutral in salt water. Which has really helped my trim a bit. The spits were REALLY negative and heavy.


As for power I love them. not only did a scuba dive with them but also did a bit of free diving, got down to 20 feet without issue, maybe a kick or two to get down.


The conditions were kinda rough for what im used to. 2-4 foot seas, current running south->north at .25-.5 knot maybe a little more (this is pretty fast for me), with the surf whitecapping and running north->south. There were a couple times waiting to get on that I got a little distracted scanning beneath me and got 50 yds or more downcurrent from the boat, but it was nothing to get back. Several fin kicks and I was there.


On the bottom I finally had plenty of power with the frog kick. I was able to easily fight swim against the current. It was amazing being able to frog kick finally.

For sizing I used the size chart on Amazon, which recommended an XL for my shoe/bootie size. The fins are a little roomy, and the straps need to be cranked pretty much all the way down. So the fins seem to run a little big. Its not a-typical of me to overtighten the fin strap and give myself cramps in my feet/arch. This was no exception but once I adjusted the tension and realized I they were secure even though I could barely feel them I was fine (which is a good thing, im just used to having a practical cinder block on my foot with my last fins).

My dive buddy opted for his Cressi Gara free dive fins due to the current, I had no issue keeping up with him as we spearfished.


All in all, 8-10, love the fins, need to get used to the fit but these seem like a decent cross between a scuba and free dive fin and I love that. I love the power, stiffness and lightweight material. I do wish I could find bungee straps for them, I ordered some cressi bungee straps but I don't think they are compatible. The type that used to be seem to be discontinued and the kind I got are likely for the Ara.

The ara come with bungee straps and this cost is about what equals the price difference. Im not returning the master frogs (as I still cant find the ara in my size with the stiff blade) but once I find some right sized bungee straps I think they will be a solid 10/10.

Edit: I'm torn as to whether they would be a good travel fin. They don't easily fit into my dive bag (I carried them in their own mesh bag with along with my mask) but they are light and I can see them being used for more than just scuba, but snorkeling and free diving as well. But due to their size they may not be the best travel fin.

As to tightening the fins to fit perfectly...just as with cycling shoes or running shoes, or ski boots....you should add an orthotic to prevent the fin from flattening out your arch and tiring muscles that would be supported by the orthotic support. Unless you have flat bottomed feet like the bottom of a fin, you need orthotics ! They can be inexpensive, from Walmart. You put them in your booties.

---------- Post added October 13th, 2015 at 11:47 AM ----------

Dive Fins and Cars....
Some people will just want one car to drive, and will use it for touring the mountain roads with awesome S turns, they will use it for city driving, they will use it for high speed trips on the Interstate....Others may want a truck or SUV for some types of driving, and a sports car or luxury car for other types....there are plenty of people that want different things out of their car, for different kinds of driving experiences.

Fin selection for different environments is an awful lot like this, at least to me.

 

[glassbottom]

As to tightening the fins to fit perfectly...just as with cycling shoes or running shoes, or ski boots....you should add an orthotic to prevent the fin from flattening out your arch and tiring muscles that would be supported by the orthotic support. Unless you have flat bottomed feet like the bottom of a fin, you need orthotics ! They can be inexpensive, from Walmart. You put them in your booties.

---------- Post added October 13th, 2015 at 11:47 AM ----------

Dive Fins and Cars....
Some people will just want one car to drive, and will use it for touring the mountain roads with awesome S turns, they will use it for city driving, they will use it for high speed trips on the Interstate....Others may want a truck or SUV for some types of driving, and a sports car or luxury car for other types....there are plenty of people that want different things out of their car, for different kinds of driving experiences.

Fin selection for different environments is an awful lot like this, at least to me.

That's actually a great idea. I do have pretty good arches and when I over-tighten and cram my toes into the front the boot, they can get pretty painful. I have found merely loosening the strap pretty much fixes that.. It didn't even occur to me to try this as you aren't really putting weight on your arch in the water but it makes total sense now that I think about it.


Im definitely in the utilitarian category for both my cars and fins. The less I have to consider packing pre-dive trips the better, I don't want to be carrying 2-3 different fins because conditions can change here in an instant.

I do have very small/frog fins I use in no current and places like spring dives, but I don't see myself using the splits in pretty much any scenario anymore.

 

[guyharrisonphoto]

Hey Glassbottom;

I am glad I did not steer you wrong on the Master Frogs! One of the absolute gems, best all-around out there, and not too well known. I am think of grabbing an extra pair off of Amazon before they are not available any more. I am not sure but I think the Ara blade is not quite as big. ALSO please let me know if the Ara bungee straps work. I use the Divegearexpress spring straps. My wife bought a pair of Mares bungees which are great when the fins are on her foot, but sometimes fall off of the knobs on the fins when they are not on.

I travel with mine, but I take all my gear and sometimes pay overweight. If I am paying to go to to a once in a lifetime place, I pay a little extra to have my best gear with me.

Dan, the orthotic idea is great, never thought of that. I have a couple around the house and might try one.