Unauthorized Sellers of Scubapro, Apeks and NO WARRANTY for you baby!

[jonnythan]

redseal once bubbled...
[1] What if there is something wrong with regs/gauges/computers? Do you want to find that out the hard way?

You buy a reg set from Leisurepro or DiveInn and save $300, cough up the $25 to have it checked by your LDS.

[2] What if there is nothing wrong other than after receiving and USING your new setup you decide you don't like it? Most on-line stores will only accept merchandise back that's in its original condition, unused, with all packing and warranty materials. And are you really going to go back and forth through UPS or Fedex or whomever trying manufacturer after manufacturer, when you could more easily walk into your local LDS and try stuff there, or find other divers who would be willing to let you try their gear (and provide possibly unbiased opinions about same and other gear)?

Would it kill people on this board to do the slightest amount of research? This is taken directly from Leisurepro's site:

"Take advantage of our 14-day return policy. You may order just about anything, inspect the equipment, and if you are not fully satisfied, just return it for a full refund less S/H charges (provided it has not been used). No restocking fee and no questions asked. "

Will your LDS sell you a BC, then take it back if you don't like it after a couple dives?

And How on earth does buying through Leisurepro prevent you from finding other divers to try out the gear? How many LDS' in your area actually let you pick out a BC, reg, and wetsuit, then jump in the pool to let you see what you think?

 

[srkdvr]

I have seen this thread for a while and stayed away, but I guess it has come time for me to add my 3 cents. I deal with a pretty good LDS here in Virginia Beach, they are very fair and normally have some pretty good deals.

As far as the deals and saving's you get on line, they do not get real close to those prices.... BUT because I have bought from them Scubapro's warranty is valid and as I spoke to a repair tech certified by Scubapro.... the online places are not authorized to sell them like they do. Yes Scubapro does tell the LDS how much they can come off there price, and from what I have been told it is to keep places online from selling them way under price... but it still looks like they are doing that.

I really do not think my LDS would get upset if I bought gear off the internet, but seeing as I want to work for them I think I will just buy from them.

Rich :mean:

P.S. If you buy off line and do your own service then there really isn't a big deal.

 

[redseal]

Therein lies the problem of purchasing the equipment on-line: you get it, you set it up (maybe even have the local guy check it out for you for $25, as mentioned in previous posts), and then use the equipment in a pool or on a dive close to home. It's not quite what you want, but now you can't return it because IT"S USED!! (Jonnythan was good enough to reproduce the terms of return from LeisurePro: no questions asked if the merchandise is returned UNUSED). So now, you have saved yourself $300 but you're not happy with your purchase.

Trying several different setups by renting from the local store allowed me to see what reg/BC/computer I liked better. I'm not married to my equipment but I feel that having used 7 or eight different setups I had a better idea of what I wanted to purchase. Could NEVER have done that using LP or DiveInn or the others.

 

[jonnythan]

redseal once bubbled...
Therein lies the problem of purchasing the equipment on-line: you get it, you set it up (maybe even have the local guy check it out for you for $25, as mentioned in previous posts), and then use the equipment in a pool or on a dive close to home. It's not quite what you want, but now you can't return it because IT"S USED!! (Jonnythan was good enough to reproduce the terms of return from LeisurePro: no questions asked if the merchandise is returned UNUSED). So now, you have saved yourself $300 but you're not happy with your purchase.

Trying several different setups by renting from the local store allowed me to see what reg/BC/computer I liked better. I'm not married to my equipment but I feel that having used 7 or eight different setups I had a better idea of what I wanted to purchase. Could NEVER have done that using LP or DiveInn or the others.

Another good thing is that many once-used items from Leisurepro can be sold off on ebay for more or less the same as you paid

Besides, how big of a selection of rental gear does *your* LDS have? Can you try out the ATX100, TX40, MK25/S600, Odin, Abyss, Delta 3, Osprey, Maximus, and Triton? It's kinda useless if you can only test 2 regulators in your price range, isn't it?

 

[Genesis]

you could make a mistake, end up buying TWO from LP/DiveInn, and STILL be ahead most of the time .vs. the local shop.

Worst case is you have a spare

 

[earl]

Well, I recently had my thoughts on this matter swing quite a bit. I bought the majority of my gear through a LDS, and unfortunately knew much less than I know now, and ended up with a BCD, etc, when I think I should be using wings. Strike one. IOW, wasted gear == wasted money. Nonetheless, my story goes like this: I bought an Aeris Atmos Pro computer, console w/ compass, etc, new at my LDS for $450 or so (IIRC.) I then proceeded to put maybe 10 dives on it before the batteries died. I was kind of upset they died so quickly, but fine, whatever. Replacing the batteries was somewhere between $10 and $20, including having someone at the LDS do it for me.

Four dives later, in the middle of a dive at the local lake (max depth 50f), my computer started flickering and reading a depth of 350 odd feet. Glancing over at my buddy, I confirmed that I hadn't plummetted 300 feet since last looking at my computer After taking it in to the LDS, I was told I should just wait until it turned off, resetting it if necessary. This seemed more than a little odd, but I played along. The next morning, after the rest of my gear dried, I discovered condensation on the inside of the computer.

Back to the LDS. Yup, that's condensation. Nope, it's not supposed to condense inside your computer. First thing they looked at was the battery case, which was securely screwed down. Well, good thing this is in warranty. In to Aeris it went.

A month passed. I kept asking where my computer was. At Aeris.

Another month passed. No computer. Still at Aeris.

Finally, 11 weeks after my computer went to my LDS (and 11 weeks of the short Wisconsin dive season), I got my computer back. I was the one who had to bug the folks at the LDS and those morons at Aeris. It was about at the point where I was going to say I needed a computer or $450, and I didn't much care which.

Where, exactly, was the service? I mean, I paid a fairly large premium (about $150, or 30% of the purchase price) at the LDS over LeisurePro or DiveINN, and I've spent over $2500 in this store. After this, I'm pretty disillusioned; it certainly didn't help that *I* had to keep bugging the folks at the LDS to call Aeris and ask WTF they were doing with my computer -- building a new one by hand? As for Aeris, well, they are crap. They simply replaced the computer -- what else can you do when there is water in it. It was nice of them to sit on it for 10 weeks, though. I mean, this wasn't the middle of dive season or anything

So, the conclusion is threefold: never again will I own anything Aeris makes, I don't think that LDS will be getting much more business, and LeisurePro/DiveINN can sit on my gear just as well as an LDS -- and at just shy of three months for a simple replacement, it isn't as if one more stop getting mailed back to the manufacturer will cost much more time. And the service can't be any worse.

-earl-

 

[dgangi]

jonnythan once bubbled...


Besides, how big of a selection of rental gear does *your* LDS have? Can you try out the ATX100, TX40, MK25/S600, Odin, Abyss, Delta 3, Osprey, Maximus, and Triton? It's kinda useless if you can only test 2 regulators in your price range, isn't it?

This is a great point. I thought the use of my LDS's would also give me the same benefit. But alas, I was wayyyy off.

When I started purchasing my gear about 4 months ago, I called around to see who rented which regulators. I'm an avid snow skier and always get demos of the skis I am interested in before purchasing them. So I thought that dive shops had the same concept.

Wrong. Sorry. Try again. All I found as "rentals" or "demos" were low end junk by Sherwood, Mares, and a few other brands. The Oceanic Delta 3 that I wanted? Nope. How about the Apeks? Nope. Atomic? Naah.

Same went with computers. All I found as rentals were the Oceanic Data Trans (their bottom computer), Suunto something or other (their bottom computer), and a few other crappy ones that were at least 2 years old. And that was the dive shops that rented them (many didn't). Suunto Cobra? Nope. Oceanic Datamax Proplus? Nope. Aeris 750? Not gonna happen. Uwatec Aladdin Air-Z? Ha ha ha.

So if you want to buy rental-level gear, then the LDS rentals/demos will surely help you out. But for those of us that want to buy the good stuff, you're not going to get ANY benefit from looking at LDS rental gear as "demo" equipment. And that's a shame, because bike shops and ski shops and other places usually have a few of their high-end products available for rental or demo. And there must be a good economical reason for that.

On top of that, the LDS return policies are just the same as any on-line store. Buy a regulator from your LDS, take it on a dive, and then come back and say you don't like it. Your chances for a return? Nil. Nada. Zip. You *may* be lucky enough to get in-store credit (after paying a restocking fee). So what's the benefit of holding a regulator in your hand in the store? Or breathing it on a tank in the shop? Beats me -- neither of those will give real world simlation of how the regulator will actually breathe at depth. I'd rather do my homework, look at miscellaneous reviews, pick a product, and then find the best price.

Isn't this what they call being an "educated, economically practical consumer"? Isn't this what drives capitalism?

If we were bootstrapped by other industries like the dive industry is trying to bootstrap us today, we'd be paying $20 for a gallon of gas, $2,000 for a DVD player, and $20,000 for a computer. Trying to thwart the economic machine yields disaster for us all.

Thx...Doug

 

[jonscubas]

It's obvious that the polls have not been clear. What I meant to ask were the following, but unfortunately was restricted from making any changes to correct it:

Yes - It's more advantageous to buy from diveinn.

No - It's not advantageous to buy from divein.

Yes - It's more advantageous to buy from leisurepro.

No - It's not advantageous to buy from leisurepro.

Yes - It's more advantageous to buy from an LDS.

No - It's not advantageous to buy from an LDS.

Yes - Your LDS would think less of you if you bought from these unauthorized vendors and you would get less than first rate service.

No - Your LDS would not think less of you if you bought from these unauthorized vendors and still get first rate service.

Yes - diveinn.com really a craphole with non-divers running it.

No - diveinn.com is not a craphole and real divers do run it.

Yes - leisurepro.com really is a craphole with non-divers running it.

No - leisurepro.com is not a craphole and real divers do run it.

Now you can explain each if you choose. My experience with my local LDS has been fine, but they do not look upon online purchasing to save money as something positive. They say you lose way too much in other areas, which has been drawn out in these forums.

You as an individual have to make the choice, you are the one that has to use the gear, you alone has to breath from it, and you alone have to pay for the maintenance, warranty or not!

Overall, some of the questions and answers brought on here in this particular topic has been questionable. I say that only because in order for the explaination to be factual it has to be brought on with first hand experience, right "jonnythan". I'm not a liar, those who call another a liar are usually the biggest liars of all. Listen here son, liars also mean that they probably don't even dive, but hang out at dive shops and with their buds talking about wanting to do it sometime in their life. It's ok, because sometimes the truth does hurt, but oh well!

I did speak to SCUBAPro on many ocassions, I cannot speak about APEKS, but I have spoken to 5 local area LDS' and ALL of them are aware and have spoken to SCUBAPro about these websites. Because, their very own divers who had been purchasing from them are wondering why they can't match the prices of diveinn or leisurepro. Go figure?

I dive the MK25/S600 and honestly, the price difference between that and what leisurepro offers is very significant, regardless of warranty and yearly maintenance.

I like the way my LDS treats me, they certified me, they give me good deals on packages, and some gear. But the most important thing is that it's very personable and they do take care of me when things aren't right.

I may have my questionable on opinions on certain items of equipment, regarding quality, but if I had those questions, I would usually go straight to the manufacturer to obtain them. Just like when I went to ScubaPro to ask them about diveinn and leisurepro.

They don't know the rules about SCUBAPro or APeks in Europe, just like jonnythan said.

But don't forget, leisure pro is in New York, USA, hmmmmm. So my question is, what the hell does that have to do with Europe, and why can't they offer a factory warranty if they were authorized to sell it? Europe is sure a long ways away. AHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH!

 

[dgangi]

Hey Jonscubas -

Now that you've "clarified" your 4 original responses with about 20 more, you've muddied the waters further. Does statistical theory mean anything to you? Your "new" responses aren't mutually exclusive, which poses the first problem (this poll only allows me to chose 1 response). Second of all, you have dependencies between the responses, which makes the overall selection meaningless. What if I like to buy from both DiveInn and LeisurePro? Your responses use the term "more advantageous", which implies that my choice of a particular response indicates that it is preferrable to all other choices...and that might not be.

And lastly, it's apparent that you need to relax. "Listen here son" is no way to address anybody in an educated and mature discussion (quoted from your last note). Everybody has their own opinion and it should be respected by others, no matter how well thought out that opinion might be. If you don't agree with it, then state your viewpoint and let it be. You have your own beliefs, which should be respected by others, but don't jump on the back of anybody else because they don't share the same viewpoint as you.

BTW -- have you purchased anything on-line? You speak of "liars" who have no experience in what they claim to be their own experiences, but I highly doubt you have any experience buying anything on-line...the very thing you are criticizing for various reasons (lack of warranty, lack of salesperson knowledge, etc). And to criticize these factors fairly, you should have first-hand experience in these situations. If that is not the case, you have nothing to compare your LDS experience against. And that makes your background one-sided.

Peace out...

Thx...Doug

 

[jonnythan]

from jonscubas...

The title was:

"Take your meds dude!"

The body was:

"I bet you your not even a diver?"


Read that a couple of times, look at these poll options, and then read jonscubas last post.

I don't think any more needs to be said in this thread