landlocked
Contributor
Where? Are you saying that Scubapro will honor warranties on equipment bought from LP?
Unauthorized Sellers of Scubapro, Apeks and NO WARRANTY for you baby!
- Thread starter jonscubas
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I think that what he means is the "lie" about how much value a warranty really has.
Tom
finstotheleft
Contributor
I bought my fins, snorkel, wetsuit, and dive knife from LeisurePro. No problems so far.
I bought my mask from my dive instructor at his LDS. I do believe that the local dive shops need our business; it's kinda hard to get scuba lessons through LeisurePro, if you catch my drift.
I'll get as much as I can from the LDS, but on a fixed budget, it kinda makes it hard.
I bought my mask from my dive instructor at his LDS. I do believe that the local dive shops need our business; it's kinda hard to get scuba lessons through LeisurePro, if you catch my drift.
I'll get as much as I can from the LDS, but on a fixed budget, it kinda makes it hard.
Yup. Thanks Tom. I didn't say every word he said was a lie, but some of it was an uninformed, unresearched claim at best, and a misleading lie at worst.
Specifically:
"because they are not authorized to sell them, and by doing so you void they support and warranty for free parts or help,"
Not true. This is really the biggest one. DiveInn is an authorized Scubapro dealer (at least, they claim they are and I haven't heard any proof that they're not), and they say they're authorized to seel Scubapro gear over the net. Apparently, the rules are different in Europe. On top of this, the warranty doesn't necessarily include free anything.. I think Scubapro's has free parts as long as you pay for the annual maintenance. Maintenance usually costs $25-$40 and the parts are typically $10 or less. Whether you buy from Leisurepro or DiveInn, you *do* have a full warranty, whether it's from Scubapro or not.
"If you do end up buying them from the unauthorized guys, you end up spending an arm and a leg just to get regular maintenance work done, especially if they need to have parts changed."
See above. Buying from an authorized dealer in the US doesn't mean you get free maintenance, and parts are typically cheap anyway. You're hardly spending "an arm and a leg" for the $10 in parts per year, especially considering you can save $300 or more on the purchase. And, as I said, DiveInn isn't an "authorized guy."
Additionally, jonscubas implied that the operators of Leisurepro and DiveInn aren't divers, and that their establishments are "crapholes."
The whole post came across to me as some kneejerk reaction to hearing that manufacturers don't honor warranties on internet purchases... and the poll options were kind of amusing
dgangi
Contributor
I agree with some of the comments made on this board thus far regarding the poll. The options are amusing. Obviously they imply there is evil in the hearts of men who either (a) run on-line dive stores or (b) buy from on-line dive stores. I fall into category (b) so I must be one of the bad guys.
I have purchased a lot of gear from Leisure Pro and have absolutly no complaints. In fact, I find them to be extremely courteous and easy to do business with (unlike some of my LDS owners who are terrible business people). I recently bought a close-out Scubapro Nighthawk NT for $225. Yes, it may be a 2001 model, but I couldn't even find a quality *used* BC for that price. I'll forego the Scubapro warranty anytime to save over 50% on an item, especially when Leisure Pro will honor it themselves. Needless to say, I am very happy with my decision to buy this BC from them.
And speaking of the Leisure Pro warranty, it's not just lip service. I had a problem with a regulator that I purchased from LP (breathed wet). I sent it back and they fixed it...free of charge.
And speaking of the so-called "warranties" that dive equipment manufacturers offer, I've seen them in action and I think they are a joke. Most regulator "lifetime" warranties require proof of routine service to be considered in-force. That's like GM requiring you to prove 3,000 mile service on your car before they fix a rough idle! C'mon -- that's just goes to show how the dive industry takes care of itself and leaves the consumer to dry.
Another example: my friend bought a Scubapro Ladyhawk from an LDS last year for $500+. It was used on 5 dives (1 trip) and that was it for an entire year. My wife then borrowed this BC just last month and found a small leak out of the inflator hose. We took the BC back to the LDS and told the owner about the problem. The Scubapro warranty on a BC is only a 1 year warranty. It was just beyond the 1 year period by 2 months, so my friend was out of luck. Even after minimal use this LDS owner still charged him $35 to fix the BC. And that's after spending thousands of $$ for equipment at this store.
With warranty service like that, who needs a manufacturers warranty anyway? These dive equipment manufacturers need a lesson in good customer service.
Thx...Doug
I have purchased a lot of gear from Leisure Pro and have absolutly no complaints. In fact, I find them to be extremely courteous and easy to do business with (unlike some of my LDS owners who are terrible business people). I recently bought a close-out Scubapro Nighthawk NT for $225. Yes, it may be a 2001 model, but I couldn't even find a quality *used* BC for that price. I'll forego the Scubapro warranty anytime to save over 50% on an item, especially when Leisure Pro will honor it themselves. Needless to say, I am very happy with my decision to buy this BC from them.
And speaking of the Leisure Pro warranty, it's not just lip service. I had a problem with a regulator that I purchased from LP (breathed wet). I sent it back and they fixed it...free of charge.
And speaking of the so-called "warranties" that dive equipment manufacturers offer, I've seen them in action and I think they are a joke. Most regulator "lifetime" warranties require proof of routine service to be considered in-force. That's like GM requiring you to prove 3,000 mile service on your car before they fix a rough idle! C'mon -- that's just goes to show how the dive industry takes care of itself and leaves the consumer to dry.
Another example: my friend bought a Scubapro Ladyhawk from an LDS last year for $500+. It was used on 5 dives (1 trip) and that was it for an entire year. My wife then borrowed this BC just last month and found a small leak out of the inflator hose. We took the BC back to the LDS and told the owner about the problem. The Scubapro warranty on a BC is only a 1 year warranty. It was just beyond the 1 year period by 2 months, so my friend was out of luck. Even after minimal use this LDS owner still charged him $35 to fix the BC. And that's after spending thousands of $$ for equipment at this store.
With warranty service like that, who needs a manufacturers warranty anyway? These dive equipment manufacturers need a lesson in good customer service.
Thx...Doug
yknot
Guest
As a newly certified diver preparing to purchase a full set of gear I have been reading as many of the threads related to online versus LDS shopping. First, my experience: I finally settled on what I wanted. My equiptment choices are not the issue here, just price. As far as online pricing, LeisurePro appears to have the most consistantly low prices. If a particular item is $10 cheaper at DiveInn the additional shipping for an item could negate any advantage so I choose to stick with a single source. The total cost for my package, including shipping, at LeisurePro was $1400. I found a LDS that sells the same equiptment I wanted and decided to let them quote me a package price. I was very up front with this LDS about my willingness to purchase online. After a brief discussion of warranties being void for online purchases, said LDS proceeded with my quote. After some minor haggling over the bottom line, my LDS priced this package at $1500. This is out the door, tax included, LDS support, warrantied, etc. When I waivered a bit over the $100 differance, the manager at the LDS offered to throw in a new aluminum 80, color my choice. I spent my money in this case at my LDS. This shows that an LDS can compete fairly well with the online discounters when they choose to do so.
Now my opinion: While I may be new to diving I am a dedicated bargain hunting consumer with a great deal of experiance spending MY hard earned money. Why do so many respondents to these threads feel an obligation to their LDS when it comes to free advise? Consider these scenarios: You spend a half hour of the owners time at the corner hardware store discussing your repair project and leave with a 5 cent screw. Or you enter your local new car dealership, spend 2 hours discussing features, looking at models on the lot, leave with an arm load of brochures while telling the salesperson "I want to think about this" and then buy a competitors vehicle. Why do LDS's deserve to be treated with any more reverance than other businesses? When you open your doors to the public you can't complain about what comes thru the doors. I have read some of the horror stories on this forum about dive retailers that don't want to talk to anyone without some assurance of a sale. The correct term for LDS's of this type should be "Vacant Building for Rent". Many of the dive shops in my area appear to be hobby caliber stores where the owner(s) have real jobs. Do we have an obligation to subsidize someones Carribean dive vacation and personal gear configuration experimenting? Maybe we feel like we are supporting a fellow fraternity member because these owners are also divers. Do you feel like an inside member of their club when you look at the $900 BC's hanging in these stores? The internet discounters will cause some LDS's to fail. This is an effect of a capitalistic system. The LDS's that remain will be better and more professionally run businesses that have learned how to compete. We as customers will ultimatly benefit from better prices and overall service.
Now my opinion: While I may be new to diving I am a dedicated bargain hunting consumer with a great deal of experiance spending MY hard earned money. Why do so many respondents to these threads feel an obligation to their LDS when it comes to free advise? Consider these scenarios: You spend a half hour of the owners time at the corner hardware store discussing your repair project and leave with a 5 cent screw. Or you enter your local new car dealership, spend 2 hours discussing features, looking at models on the lot, leave with an arm load of brochures while telling the salesperson "I want to think about this" and then buy a competitors vehicle. Why do LDS's deserve to be treated with any more reverance than other businesses? When you open your doors to the public you can't complain about what comes thru the doors. I have read some of the horror stories on this forum about dive retailers that don't want to talk to anyone without some assurance of a sale. The correct term for LDS's of this type should be "Vacant Building for Rent". Many of the dive shops in my area appear to be hobby caliber stores where the owner(s) have real jobs. Do we have an obligation to subsidize someones Carribean dive vacation and personal gear configuration experimenting? Maybe we feel like we are supporting a fellow fraternity member because these owners are also divers. Do you feel like an inside member of their club when you look at the $900 BC's hanging in these stores? The internet discounters will cause some LDS's to fail. This is an effect of a capitalistic system. The LDS's that remain will be better and more professionally run businesses that have learned how to compete. We as customers will ultimatly benefit from better prices and overall service.
Buy were you want but LDS owners have real jobs because we don't make any money on the store. I would love to compete in price but you can buy regulators for the same price I can. Idiot dive shop owners still insist on giving away classes.
snobeach
Guest
My LDS claims that the discount they can offer on any piece of equipment is predetermined by the manufacturer. They say this is to maintain a level playing field between authorized shops. Is this true? If so, how do some shops keep price differences (compared to online) more to a minimum than others?
Also, my last discussion with my LDS had him going on and on about some products purchased on-line being fraudulant. "Cheap copies with name brand labels". He described a reg he was recently asked to service, and the strange/alien parts he discovered within. I took this with a grain of salt. I suspect if this were true, it would be well documented here. Also, I assume the online shops still have to consider liability; thus, selling frauds would be an extreme risk for all involved. Comments???
Also, my last discussion with my LDS had him going on and on about some products purchased on-line being fraudulant. "Cheap copies with name brand labels". He described a reg he was recently asked to service, and the strange/alien parts he discovered within. I took this with a grain of salt. I suspect if this were true, it would be well documented here. Also, I assume the online shops still have to consider liability; thus, selling frauds would be an extreme risk for all involved. Comments???
dgangi
Contributor
Snobeach -- given what little experience I have thus far in buying equipment from a dive shop, I'd have to say your LDS owner is smoking something pretty strong (and I wouldn't mind a hit!)
The Oceanic regulators I recently purchased from Leisure Pro came in Oceanic boxes with Oceanic manuals and Oceanic tags. And the Scubapro BC I bought came in the Scubapro bag with Scubapro manuals and Scubapro tags and other Scubapro information. If these are fakes then they are outstanding fakes!
C'mon. Truth be told, I'm sure that *some* on-line dive shop *somewhere* sold some phoney baloney at *some* time, and your LDS owner generalized it to mean "all on-line dive shops everywhere sell phoney baloney all the time". He wants to scare you into buying from him. That's not only pathetic business ethics, it's a load of crap. As you said, if it were true, this would be a well documented fact.
The more I learn about the local dive shop community, the more ugly it gets to me. I am also into biking, and the parallels between biking and scuba diving shops are frighteningly familiar. Many owners of bike shops are complete a$$holes that have no clue how to run a business. And most bike manufacturers are totally protective of these shops and their outrageous pricing schemes.
Over the past few years a number of bike shops closed down, and THANK GOD! These were the crappy bike stores that managed to stay in business for as long as they were because of the monopoly they had on the market. The good bike shops are still in business and doing quite well and will earn my business when I need their help. I buy many of my bike parts on-line and put them on myself, but I also take the bike to them and pay for their labor on annual service and other maintenance that I am not qualified to do. But there are many other consumers that frequent these bike stores and pay the higher markups because they want personal service, "try-before-you-buy", or whatever.
On-line purchasing will never knock out the brick-and-mortar businesses because there will always be a demand for "personal" face-to-face purchases. But let's face it -- the internet is changing how business is done, and the businesses that can't face this fact and morph to fit the changing times will only wilt away...to the benefit of us all. Capitalism and technology are both amazing things.
Thx...Doug
The Oceanic regulators I recently purchased from Leisure Pro came in Oceanic boxes with Oceanic manuals and Oceanic tags. And the Scubapro BC I bought came in the Scubapro bag with Scubapro manuals and Scubapro tags and other Scubapro information. If these are fakes then they are outstanding fakes!
C'mon. Truth be told, I'm sure that *some* on-line dive shop *somewhere* sold some phoney baloney at *some* time, and your LDS owner generalized it to mean "all on-line dive shops everywhere sell phoney baloney all the time". He wants to scare you into buying from him. That's not only pathetic business ethics, it's a load of crap. As you said, if it were true, this would be a well documented fact.
The more I learn about the local dive shop community, the more ugly it gets to me. I am also into biking, and the parallels between biking and scuba diving shops are frighteningly familiar. Many owners of bike shops are complete a$$holes that have no clue how to run a business. And most bike manufacturers are totally protective of these shops and their outrageous pricing schemes.
Over the past few years a number of bike shops closed down, and THANK GOD! These were the crappy bike stores that managed to stay in business for as long as they were because of the monopoly they had on the market. The good bike shops are still in business and doing quite well and will earn my business when I need their help. I buy many of my bike parts on-line and put them on myself, but I also take the bike to them and pay for their labor on annual service and other maintenance that I am not qualified to do. But there are many other consumers that frequent these bike stores and pay the higher markups because they want personal service, "try-before-you-buy", or whatever.
On-line purchasing will never knock out the brick-and-mortar businesses because there will always be a demand for "personal" face-to-face purchases. But let's face it -- the internet is changing how business is done, and the businesses that can't face this fact and morph to fit the changing times will only wilt away...to the benefit of us all. Capitalism and technology are both amazing things.
Thx...Doug
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