Two tourists die in Vietnam diving accident

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Hi Philippe's Sister, it would be best for you to get on the ground here and find out the truth, I know this area well and don't see why they would have been snorkeling.

It is often convenient here to change the info from diving to snorkeling to avoid problems with the police and govt.... I work in the industry here and can also find out almost nothing.

The area they were diving is serviced by a Korean owned Dive Center
 
Interesting comments FB, but - if it happened to me, I wouldn't want my family to fly to Viet Nam and ask questions that could even endanger them. When I travel, I try to keep my own risks reasonable, keep myself well insured so that my body can be returned alive or not at no costs, but if my adventures take a bad turn - what could they do anyway?

I've never been to your country as my Marine Corps until was reassigned as we were preparing to go around 1970. Even then my views may well be slanted from those days, but I just wouldn't want my family blowing money and taking risks for such.
 
Interesting comments FB, but - if it happened to me, I wouldn't want my family to fly to Viet Nam and ask questions that could even endanger them. When I travel, I try to keep my own risks reasonable, keep myself well insured so that my body can be returned alive or not at no costs, but if my adventures take a bad turn - what could they do anyway?

I've never been to your country as my Marine Corps until was reassigned as we were preparing to go around 1970. Even then my views may well be slanted from those days, but I just wouldn't want my family blowing money and taking risks for such.

What could they do? A proper investigation could determine the cause, ensure accountability, and thereby save some elses' life
 
Where I live, we have recently seen news reports of "snorkeling death" when in fact it was a diver. :dontknow:
 
Don,

I think Vietnam has changed quite a bit since your days and I'm sure it's safe for Philippe's Sister to go over there, certainly if it's the part that was known as "Southern Vietnam" in the day.

The reason I think she or a family member should go if possible is due to a recent experience. I can't say too much because it has to do with my employer, but basically, one of our employees was killed while abroad and we were helping to repatriate his body. Fortunately, we had other employees there to assist and a family member went there - this helped a LOT with the authorities. They tend to be more reactive and helpful when confronted face to face with a family member demanding answers.

To Philippe's Sister: I am very sorry for your loss and I am grateful you came on this forum to contribute. It would be very helpful if you could return to the forum later on and let us know what you found out. The purpose of this forum is to learn and it's often hard to get information. Again, thanks for your input.

Trish
 
Some technical facts


When fishing with explosives the massive pressure wave in the water causes the fish to get unconsious. It ruptures their swimbladder and they float to the surface. Some sink to the bottom. Fishermen then enter the water and scoop up the dead fish. Fishing with explosives kills everything instantly because the shockwave travels extremely fast in water ( up to 10000 meters per second) The fact that the 3rd man was found unconsious tells me the fisherman were at or near the scene. The fact that they also found the two other victims also is an indicator that they were equiped to salvage objects under water.

Some other facts
The velocity of detonation of high explosives is about 5,000 to 10,000 m/s, and a shock wave that propagates in all directions is produced in the water. The main features of the shock wave from 1000 gram TNT ( a common explosive) fired under water are:
The Force inside the explosion is 274 dB in 0,1 second or 250000000 megajoule.
One megajoule (MJ) is equal to one million joules, or approximately the kinetic energy of a 1000 kg vehicle moving at 160 km/h (100 mph).
This force is so high and short it instantly kills everything within considerable distance to the blast.

The safe distance a diver needs to follow for a 11 kg explosive devise placed in 27 meter deep water is 320 meter on surface, 1460 meters at a depth of 7,6 meter and 2320 meters at a depth of 23 meter!
(source http://dspace.dsto.defence.gov.au/dspace/bitstream/1947/3763/1/DSTO-GD-0080 PR.pdf)

The depth of the divers makes an enormous diiference. This is the reason why the fisherman on the surface can be relativey safe close to the explosion but for divers it's very dangerous.

This could be the reason why the third diver survived the blast, if he was relatively close to the surface
The dive computer could answer a lot of questions.


It is very important for the family to know that the victim never even realised something happend. It takes about 100 ms for a sensory stimulus to travel to the brain and 160 ms for the brain to process the stimulus.

The blast was travelling at 1,5km/second underwater so the victims never felt any pain, and they were killed or stunned unconscious instantly without any pain.


I hope this will help the family in finding some peace of mind. To the sister your brother never felt any pain and his brain never even registered the explosion. A sad accident, but a comfort to know that your brother died while doing something beautifull and he passed away without him knowing or feeling it.

The fishermen on scene are IMHO the prime suspects in this case. Other fishermen stay far away from fishermen who fish with explosives because it's very dangerous and highly illegal. These explosives frequently cause a 2 meter wide hole in the coral and because water conducts the explosive force better then air the blast is extremely dangerous for anything in the water.

A "diver below" buoy could have prevented this accident.

I would also go to Viëtnam and visit the scene of the accident. Ask if the consul or a diplomat can escort you. Countries like Viëtnam with a developing diving tourism fear the presence and interest of international press and they otherwise might try to sweep it under the carpet . Visit the local Viëtnamese state representative with a delegation and maybe invite the international press. This will safeguard a thorough judicial investigation and a fast repatriation of the remains.

This way the death of these divers could contribute to stopping dynamite fishing in Viëtnam and enhance diver's safety in Viëtnam.
 
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The fishermen on scene are IMHO the prime suspects in this case. Other fishermen stay far away from fishermen who fish with explosives because it's very dangerous and highly illegal. These explosives frequently cause a 2 meter wide hole in the coral and because water conducts the explosive force better then air the blast is extremely dangerous for anything in the water.

A "diver below" buoy could have prevented this accident.

I would also go to Viëtnam and visit the scene of the accident. Ask if the consul or a diplomat can escort you. Countries like Viëtnam with a developing diving tourism fear the presence and interest of international press and they otherwise might try to sweep it under the carpet . Visit the local Viëtnamese state representative with a delegation and maybe invite the international press. This will safeguard a thorough judicial investigation and a fast repatriation of the remains.

This way the death of these divers could contribute to stopping dynamite fishing in Viëtnam and enhance diver's safety in Viëtnam.


Do you know as a fact that dynamite fishing is illegal in Vietnam?

I would be cautious about your recommedation to get the international press involved. Asian cultures tend to revolve around saving face. It might not be helpful to the families cause to put a government or police official whom might otherwise be helpful in a position in which he needs to save face from the international press causing him to lose face. Besides the international press has their own agenda which might not be in the best interest of what the family wishes to achieve.

I am not saying the family should not get the press involved just saying think thru it carefully as your cultural norms and ways of doing things are not necessarily the same in Vietnam.

John
 
Vietnam has some of the best coral reefs I have ever seen (but only from helicopter in 1970-71). Here is what the UN says about dynamite fishing:
Figure 6. Threats to the World’s coral reefs. Major observed threats to the world’s coral reefs include extreme climate events, unsustainable tourism practices, poison fishing for ornamental fish, overexploitation by fisheries, sedimentation, coral harvesting, dynamite fishing and pollution (not in order of priority). This graphic explains which activities or conditions are affecting various coral reefs throughout the world. The graphic ‘Major Threats to Reefs’ shows the percentage of reefs that are threatened by overexploitation, coastal development, inland pollution and marine pollution, and the degree to which they are under threat. The graphic ‘Destroyed Coral Reefs’ shows the percentage of coral reefs that have been destroyed in the world’s major regions.
What is Marine Pollution and How Does it Affect Marine Life | UNEP/GRID-Arendal - Publications - Our Precious Coasts

John
 
Thanks a lot to every one. We still don't have any information about the inquirie. Autopsy is supposed to have been done during the week end at our demand ! My brother will be bring back to us in a few day but nothing official for the moment. We have also open an inquiry in France. I'll let you know what reallly happened when we 're gonna have answers.
For us the priority is to bring him back to us and after we are gonna do everything to know the truth, and if it's usefull we are gonna advise press or anything else to know the truth and don't let this happen again if it's due to explosives or something not clear !

Thanks a lot for your help and suppport, and sorry for my English !
 
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