Two fatalities in Monterey

[eponym]

ChadK -

Excellent post, thanks for copying it here on SB.
Several points there will be incorporated into my training handouts.
Here's one related thought from me:​

Remember that having the intelligence to call off a dive makes you more of a diver, not less.

-Bryan

 

[Tortuga68]

I make it a habit to check my SPG twice at the start of the dive. The last thing I do before I jump is spritz a little air from each reg, my dry suit
and BC inflator then, look at my SPG. If it is still reading full, I know
my valve is open.

The dive op I used to dive with in Melbourne, Australia wouldn't let you in the water until you had demonstrated your inflator (& deflator) were working, and taken a few breaths off both your primary and secondary without the SPG reading dropping (also checking the fill pressure). A crew member would physically watch you do this check and record your SPG reading before the dive (and after)

I know this doesn't happen everywhere - and personally I found it a little annoying, because I check myself & my buddy anyway - but a good practice nonetheless, as you'll never start a dive with your air off or a used tank

Whether that would have made any difference in this case, we may never know

 

[TSandM]

I have found this thread painful to read, because I know and have dived with a couple of the instructors involved with this group (who were not on the trip, but may well have worked with the young men involved, although I do not know that to be a fact. I'm sure, however, that they knew the boys, and that they know the instructors who taught them and who were with them).

With no information about the accident other than that two young men died diving off a boat, as part of an outing, and according to sketchy information, with empty tanks, some people have simply and scathingly condemned their diving education. Can you imagine how it must feel to their instructors, if they read these posts? As if it were not enough to feel the pain of losing students (and I simply can't envision how I would feel, if one of the people Peter and I have taught to dive were to die doing it), they then have to read merciless condemnation of their performance as instructors, based on nothing more than a pervasive feeling on the part of the SB community that dive education is generally lacking, and the fact that there was an accident.

Please, stop and think for a moment about whether you have enough information to justify an on line lynching, before you write hurtful things.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I have found this thread painful to read, because I know and have dived with a couple of the instructors involved with this group (who were not on the trip, but may well have worked with the young men involved, although I do not know that to be a fact. I'm sure, however, that they knew the boys, and that they know the instructors who taught them and who were with them).

With no information about the accident other than that two young men died diving off a boat, as part of an outing, and according to sketchy information, with empty tanks, some people have simply and scathingly condemned their diving education. Can you imagine how it must feel to their instructors, if they read these posts? As if it were not enough to feel the pain of losing students (and I simply can't envision how I would feel, if one of the people Peter and I have taught to dive were to die doing it), they then have to read merciless condemnation of their performance as instructors, based on nothing more than a pervasive feeling on the part of the SB community that dive education is generally lacking, and the fact that there was an accident.

Please, stop and think for a moment about whether you have enough information to justify an on line lynching, before you write hurtful things.

That's really what I've been objecting to, Lynne ... although you are saying it much more nicely than me.

There are a few folks in here who you can always count on to bring a rope to the conversation whenever there's an accident ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[DandyDon]

I don't see any reason for anyone to criticize their training. Standards tend to be minimum and seldom exceeded but the kids would probly have been okay if they had followed their training - unless there was an exceptional problem we don't know about, and no one who knows is talking.

In general, follow your training - but it's money well spent to get private DM help on the first few ocean dives.

 

[Tortuga68]

Can you imagine how it must feel to their instructors, if they read these posts? As if it were not enough to feel the pain of losing students (and I simply can't envision how I would feel, if one of the people Peter and I have taught to dive were to die doing it), they then have to read merciless condemnation of their performance as instructors, based on nothing more than a pervasive feeling on the part of >a minority of< the SB community that dive education is generally lacking, and the fact that there was an accident

Fixed

 

[Lobzilla]

I have found this thread painful to read, because I know and have dived with a couple of the instructors involved with this group (who were not on the trip, but may well have worked with the young men involved, although I do not know that to be a fact. I'm sure, however, that they knew the boys, and that they know the instructors who taught them and who were with them).

Most of us engaged in this thread are shook up and that is a good thing.

Example: I dove today to clean the dock floats of the yacht club where the Northshore Frogmen hold their meetings. My head was no more that 2 feet under water and I was slightly positively buoyant (to be able to scrape the floats). I checked my SPG about 10 times and found 2 ways how one could drown under a dock being just 6" away from the surface. I also enjoyed the beautiful colors and shapes of the marine life growing on these floats. I hope, that a year from now I still have the same attitude - survival first, fun second. If you reverse the order, the fun may stop rather painfully. The reversal of priorities is a problem I saw in my mainstream scuba education.

With no information about the accident other than that two young men died diving off a boat, as part of an outing, and according to sketchy information, with empty tanks, some people have simply and scathingly condemned their diving education.

The word 'their' is grammatically ambiguous. It could refer to the education of the deceased boys or to the education of the posters. If and when I criticized education I was referring to my own. Until I met GUE instructor Ed Hayes (and subsequently others), my education was not driven by the desire to create competent and safe divers but by a business model that requires new customers to purchase equipment and travel packages. Maybe my case was the exception, maybe not.

Can you imagine how it must feel to their instructors, if they read these posts? As if it were not enough to feel the pain of losing students (and I simply can't envision how I would feel, if one of the people Peter and I have taught to dive were to die doing it), they then have to read merciless condemnation of their performance as instructors, based on nothing more than a pervasive feeling on the part of the SB community that dive education is generally lacking, and the fact that there was an accident.

Please, stop and think for a moment about whether you have enough information to justify an on line lynching, before you write hurtful things.

Agree, we do not know anything about the instructor(s) that certified the boys and should refrain from questioning the quality of their teaching. I apologize sincerely if I did this implicitly and unintentionally.

 

[eponym]

If and when I criticized education I was referring to my own. Until I met GUE instructor Ed Hayes (and subsequently others), my education was not driven by the desire to create competent and safe divers but by a business model that requires new customers to purchase equipment and travel packages.

Understand completely. I took deco training after working as a recreational instructor and it was a big eye-opener. It affected how I conduct OWD courses and what I emphasize or add to the academics. I also drill all skills mid-column before going to open water.

Most of us engaged in this thread are shook up and that is a good thing.

Agreed. This afternoon I'm revising my teaching notes for two upcoming courses, one of which is for a group of Eagle Scouts. These merged threads have given me much to think about as regards teaching older teens. One of my new topics is a detailed q&a regarding the "incident pit" concept, the other is a much more comprehensive discussion of calling the dive.

In some ways teaching 10 to 14 year olds (I've had a couple dozen) feels easier because they're not going to be let loose on their own post-training. They must dive with a parent or a pro.

-Bryan

 

[Lobzilla]

Can you imagine how it must feel to their instructors, if they read these posts? As if it were not enough to feel the pain of losing students (and I simply can't envision how I would feel, if one of the people Peter and I have taught to dive were to die doing it), they then have to read merciless condemnation of their performance as instructors, based on nothing more than a pervasive feeling on the part of >a minority of< the SB community that dive education is generally lacking, and the fact that there was an accident

Fixed

Let's put the different predictions on how the majority feels about the adequacy of OW and AOW training to the test - outside of this thread, by clicking the link.

 

[Lobzilla]

Understand completely. I took deco training after working as a recreational instructor and it was a big eye-opener. It affected how I conduct OWD courses and what I emphasize or add to the academics. I also drill all skills mid-column before going to open water.

Agreed. This afternoon I'm revising my teaching notes for two upcoming courses, one of which is for a group of Eagle Scouts. These merged threads have given me much to think about as regards teaching older teens. One of my new topics is a detailed q&a regarding the "incident pit" concept, the other is a much more comprehensive discussion of calling the dive.

In some ways teaching 10 to 14 year olds (I've had a couple dozen) feels easier because they're not going to be let loose on their own post-training. They must dive with a parent or a pro.

-Bryan

Great. Other good Q&As for the 'invincible' crowd would be:

Intro to gas management
Q: How long can you survive without food? A: several days
Q: How long can you survive without water? A: few days
Q: How long can you survive without air? A: MINUTES
Q: What is the most important letter in SCUBA? A: 'B' for breathing
Now, let's see how we earn that next breath under water....

Towards the end, to sum everything up
Q: Name the two main causes of death associated with diving? A: Drowning, AGE
(The third 'biggy', Cardiac Incidents, is probably not a concern in this age group)
Q: Who's job is it to avoid these killers? A: Mine
Thank you, class dismissed...