Two fatalities in Monterey

[KevinG58]

This article below described it as "an evening dive." But this is not an important detail in the context of what I wrote in my post. There are no boats in Monterey that do "evening dives" either, so that was a shallower, shore dive.

School district issues statement about students' deaths | Carson City Nevada News - Carson Now

However, this article appears to clarify that they did one dive on Friday in the evening and the accident occurred on the second dive Saturday morning [on the Monterey Express]. So they did have one successful deeper boat dive on the 2400 psi tanks off the Monterey Express. Even though I am sure that the second dive was shallower than the first, you can actually use more air on the second dive because you are colder and fighting to stay warm. My last trip on the Monterey Express - 19 divers, only 7 did the second dive because the others were too cold. Only myself and one other diver were in dry suits.

K Girl has the Express stopped doing night dives? I haven't been out with them in a year or so, they were still advertising them way back then.

 

[cruiser]

...it's money well spent to get private DM help on the first few ocean dives.

+1

Been there, done that, and it WAS worth the extra money.

 

[aquaregia]

Faber shows a 2400 psi steel 80 and a 3180 psi steel 80 on that chart (link above); I'm assuming the 2400 is the more recent of the two. Not saying I know anything about the Monterey Express, but a good package price for new tanks that work the compressors and regs less hard is perhaps smart business.

There's also a 2730 psi steel 80 that's not terribly uncommon.

 

[blinkswiler]

Look folks, This is getting out of hand. There is so much c**p in this thread that it is becoming worthless.The only facts are 2-17 year olds, CERTIFIED by qualified, licensed instructor, died for UNKNOWN causes in a different dive location than trained in. My condolances to both the diver's families AND the instructors who trained them. I'm sure they knew the boys well and had instructed them in the diver's responsibility for safe diving pratices along with all the skills required by their agency. As for certifying to dive in like waters, I know of no agency that issues a lake-only, quary-only, Atlantic-only or Pacific-only cetification. I view the OW cert as a learner's permit not a 'I know all there is to know about all diving' and can perform Course Director-level skill demonstrations in zero-vis, 30-ft seas conditions. In this sport, you learn by doing. Its unfortunate that somtimes the worst happens. But if we apply the same 'its too dangerous' rules to diving as other activities, we'd never get to drive a car, ride a bike, fly, play socer, basketball, football or even watch TV ( some of th c**p there is bad for your health also). Quit crucifying the instructors, city, certifying agency, dive boat, parents and chapparones until FACTS are known.

I urge the webmaster to review some of these posts and consider their appropriatness, mine included.

 

[Lobzilla]

Look folks, This is getting out of hand. There is so much c**p in this thread that it is becoming worthless.The only facts are 2-17 year olds, CERTIFIED by qualified, licensed instructor, died for UNKNOWN causes in a different dive location than trained in. My condolances to both the diver's families AND the instructors who trained them. I'm sure they knew the boys well and had instructed them in the diver's responsibility for safe diving pratices along with all the skills required by their agency. As for certifying to dive in like waters, I know of no agency that issues a lake-only, quary-only, Atlantic-only or Pacific-only cetification. I view the OW cert as a learner's permit not a 'I know all there is to know about all diving' and can perform Course Director-level skill demonstrations in zero-vis, 30-ft seas conditions. In this sport, you learn by doing. Its unfortunate that somtimes the worst happens. But if we apply the same 'its too dangerous' rules to diving as other activities, we'd never get to drive a car, ride a bike, fly, play socer, basketball, football or even watch TV ( some of th c**p there is bad for your health also). Quit crucifying the instructors, city, certifying agency, dive boat, parents and chapparones until FACTS are known.

I urge the webmaster to review some of these posts and consider their appropriatness, mine included.

@blinkswiler: You may want to get used to the possibility that the facts may never reach the public or by the time they do, nobody may care.

I agree that bashing of the individuals involved in the accidents is unfair.

However, I can sympathize with criticizing the agencies as long as you hear physically questionable recommendations on how to avoid similar accidents from instructors that got certified by these agencies. Either the quality control of these agencies failed or they are OK with spreading half-truths. Except for the physiological effects of hyperbaric exposure, scuba diving is not 'rocket surgery'. It is governed by well understood physical laws that some marketing geniuses deemed to be too complicated for their potential customers. Therefore, the average customer gets recommendation that may turn out more dangerous than useful. Like: "Be on the boat with 500psi"
[ end of rant that may not have anything to do with the causes of the accident but a lot with the suggestions in this thread ]

 

[Scott L]

K Girl has the Express stopped doing night dives? I haven't been out with them in a year or so, they were still advertising them way back then.

We have been informed that night dives have been renamed "evening dives"...

 

[Blue Sparkle]

We have been informed that night dives have been renamed "evening dives"...

Scott, who informed you of this? I ask because it goes against what I know. Granted, I'm not an "old salt" of diving, so tell me if you disagree, but in my understanding night dives and evening dives can be two different things.

At least in my mind, a "night dive" is a dive where you specifically plan for most or all of the dive to take place after dark. In other words, the goal of the dive is to be underwater in the dark, and to see "night creatures" going about their business.

On the other hand, an "evening dive," could either also be a night dive, could partially be a night dive, or could not be a night dive at all. I would think that an "evening dive" would often be one that you would make, say, after work, and that you might often be out of the water during daylight hours and/or at or before dusk.

In other words, I see a "night dive" as having a goal to see the underwater world when it is dark. I see an evening dive as taking place after work (or other daytime commitment), and quite possibly ending before dark (obviously, it depends).

If we are talking about the dive the group involved in the incident took the day before it happened, then I think it was referred to as an "evening dive," so we have no way of knowing if they were in and out before dark or not. It may or may not also have been a "night dive."

I don't think anyone is trying to say that night dives have been renamed.

As for the Monterey Express, their website says that they do night dives:

Night dives, special event dives and their pricing will be posted separately on the reservation calendar when scheduled.


From:
https://app.timetrade.com/tc/login.do?url=montereyexpress

 

[Scott L]

Scott, who informed you of this? I ask because it goes against what I know. Granted, I'm not an "old salt" of diving, so tell me if you disagree, but in my understanding night dives and evening dives can be two different things.

At least in my mind, a "night dive" is a dive where you specifically plan for most or all of the dive to take place after dark. In other words, the goal of the dive is to be underwater in the dark, and to see "night creatures" going about their business.

On the other hand, an "evening dive," could either also be a night dive, could partially be a night dive, or could not be a night dive at all. I would think that an "evening dive" would often be one that you would make, say, after work, and that you might often be out of the water during daylight hours and/or at or before dusk.

In other words, I see a "night dive" as having a goal to see the underwater world when it is dark. I see an evening dive as taking place after work (or other daytime commitment), and quite possibly ending before dark (obviously, it depends).

If we are talking about the dive the group involved in the incident took the day before it happened, then I think it was referred to as an "evening dive," so we have no way of knowing if they were in and out before dark or not. It may or may not also have been a "night dive."

I don't think anyone is trying to say that night dives have been renamed.

As for the Monterey Express, their website says that they do night dives:

Night dives, special event dives and their pricing will be posted separately on the reservation calendar when scheduled.


From:
https://app.timetrade.com/tc/login.do?url=montereyexpress

Here you go. No one in Florida received the memo either...

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/5840787-post253.html

 

[Ken Kurtis]

B
Although this was almost 100 posts ago, I just got around to getting caught up today and I'm surprised no one (that I saw) picked up on this . . .
b

In the 'old days' the mantra was your body weight plus 5 lbs. when diving in a 6-7mm wetsuit in CA waters.

Lest anyone get the wrong impression, I think the qualifier "10%" was omitted. As in "In the "old days" the mantra was 10% of your body weight plus 5 lbs. when diving in a 6-7mm wetsuit in CA waters.

I'm pretty sure that if you think I need 190 pounds of lead (my body weight + 5 pounds) to keep me down, I'll be kept down a lot longer than I'd like. Besides, I don't think I've seen the BC on the market yet that has 190 pounds of lift. (Perhaps a model made by Goodyear???)



- Ken

 

[VooDooGasMan]

Ken, I seen it also, was not sure the full term of mantra was so I gave it the same notion. now it would also matter what old is, turtle suit and or a jumpsuit, or farmer john, The height of a suit means more neoprene, but maybe weight is the same as if you were 6' tall or 6' round.

I dive different suits and have from 8# to 38# weight belts.



Happy Diving