Error Two wreck divers dead - Marsascala, Malta

[Wibble]

My normoxic instructor told me when we did the last dive of the course: if you make a mistake now you will end in a wheelchair. If you make a mistake during a full trimix course you will end dead. So do you want to dive?
He maybe said it rude, but sometimes this is the truth.

Excellent quote.

 

[ginti]

Hi @Germie, I think actually your view is the same as mine and that of other people: it is not impossible to reach that level in only two years, just highly unlikely.

Your post was really exhaustive, thank you for that. Just a point I think is worth mentioning: according to a relatively old DAN report, the divers at highest risk were new divers (<100 dives of experience), rebreather divers, and divers who dive very frequently (>300 dives/year). It was speculated that the latter group was at risk due to complacency. To be clear, risk was measured as the number of fatal accidents per diving group if I recall correctly.

In conclusion, while it is absolutely possible to develop such a huge experience in only two years, one needs to be honest and highlight that:
(1) it is possible, but very unlikely
(2) going that fast has its inherent risks.

In all honesty, I don't think we have any information to say whether complacency was a problem in this dive or not.

Nevertheless great post, thanks.

PS I am not going to look for that report; an easy google search will make it available to anyone interested in it.

 

[cerich]

Hmm. Nope. I completely made that up and am unrepentant.

Fact is that courses are meticulously planned and vetted by the agency. They've trained and vetted the instructors. The instructors are "at work" so subject to health and safety controls.

Hence it SHOULD be the safest way of doing those dives as the instructor should vet the student: if they're not up to the task in hand, they're off the course.

OK, crap happens. We cannot second guess what happened in this instance and nor should we.

I know that in my technical training it was very much a controlled environment by my instructors. Vastly better controls on technical diving than for recreational diving.

it was in the water right? technical, long deco and deep? Anyhow, you believe what you will.


I prefer stats

 

[Wibble]

it was in the water right? technical, long deco and deep? Anyhow, you believe what you will.


I prefer stats

So you're saying that courses aren't designed, tested and all instructors and materials vetted for viability? That the instructor teaching the course hasn't done risk assessment on how different parts of the course can be taught safely?

I know you aren't saying that, but I am saying that a lot of thought and planning goes into teaching a course and especially with technical courses such as MOD1, MOD2, etc.

The many instructors I've had for technical courses are acutely aware of risk reduction and it's front and centre in the execution of the course.

 

[ginti]

So you're saying that courses aren't designed, tested and all instructors and materials vetted for viability? That the instructor teaching the course hasn't done risk assessment on how different parts of the course can be taught safely?

There have been quite some horrible accidents during courses in the past, a few of them with fatal outcomes, and some are documented here in SB. Therefore, without stats, there is no reason to believe this process of designing and approving standards is so effective

 

[cerich]

So you're saying that courses aren't designed, tested and all instructors and materials vetted for viability? That the instructor teaching the course hasn't done risk assessment on how different parts of the course can be taught safely?

I know you aren't saying that, but I am saying that a lot of thought and planning goes into teaching a course and especially with technical courses such as MOD1, MOD2, etc.

The many instructors I've had for technical courses are acutely aware of risk reduction and it's front and centre in the execution of the course.

I am saying as someone that has been in industry 30 years, a tech instructor almost all of that, who has been very involved at agency level (former board of naui, board of restc) and so forth that I find your trust in the system charming

 

[Quicksilver II]

Your post was really exhaustive, thank you for that. Just a point I think is worth mentioning: according to a relatively old DAN report, the divers at highest risk were new divers (<100 dives of experience), rebreather divers, and divers who dive very frequently (>300 dives/year). It was speculated that the latter group was at risk due to complacency. To be clear, risk was measured as the number of fatal accidents per diving group if I recall correctly.

This plays out in aviation, as well. Accident rates are a bathtub curve up to the very experienced, at which point they go down again, with most happening around 400 hours of flight time, which is where most people think they have it all figured out and get cocky or complacent.

There are no old and bold pilots (or divers).

Edit: Not saying that was the case here.

 

[Patrick1000]

The description of the incident raises another question in my mind. It states that the deceased instructor wanted to do an in water decompression and was refused to do so. Would such an in water decompression have changed the outcome?
On a recent trip to Shetland a diver missed decompression after a 44m dive and from the boat went back to 6m with 50O2, of course not alone. The Hospital in Lerwick stated that because of this in water decompression a trip to the chamber in Aberdeen was avoided.
Patrick

 

[admikar]

The description of the incident raises another question in my mind. It states that the deceased instructor wanted to do an in water decompression and was refused to do so. Would such an in water decompression have changed the outcome?
On a recent trip to Shetland a diver missed decompression after a 44m dive and from the boat went back to 6m with 50O2, of course not alone. The Hospital in Lerwick stated that because of this in water decompression a trip to the chamber in Aberdeen was avoided.
Patrick

IWR has its own risks and current thinking is that it is a last ditch effort.
On the other hand, another recollection in this thread says that he chose to just have oxygen on the boat, presumably not to delay transport of the first victim.

 

[boulderjohn]

IWR has its own risks and current thinking is that it is a last ditch effort.
On the other hand, another recollection in this thread says that he chose to just have oxygen on the boat, presumably not to delay transport of the first victim.

Although I am not sure I agree that IWR is a last ditch effort, I do think that his decision to have only O2 on the boat was likely not to delay transport of the first victim. In fact, I immediately wondered if his decision to surface was not for that reason. A boat captain has a real problem when it is necessary to transport a DCS victim as soon as possible, but there is another diver doing an hour of deco below.

A similar situation happened in Cozumel a while ago. Three divers, including the owner of the shop, did a dive intended for 300 feet on AL tanks, but it ended up going to 400 feet. They eventually surfaced having done no deco. They needed to get to the chamber as soon as possible. Unfortunately, they had chosen to do this dive off of a boat doing a regular dive with customers, and the captain refused to leave the divers who were still below completing their dives. The shop owner did not live, and one of the others will never walk again.