Two fatalities in Monterey

[Scott L]

From what I understand and please someone correct me if I am wrong, there were 19 paying customers on board the Monterey Express. I would assume they chartered the boat. There were three instructors with the youths. Simple math says there should have been 16 youths. The conditions of the day were surgy with at best 15 feet of vis and probably more like 10 feet of vis. This would mean lighting at a depth of 40+ feet would be reduced. The dive site has kelp in parts of it, but not necessarily where the youths were found deceased. The kelp this time of year is not very thick.

Most likely the youths were trained in Lake Tahoe. The lake has good vis with between 20-100ft. Very little current, and zero surge. I do not know how many ocean dives they had done, but if someone has an idea please share. Friday night they did a night dive at the Breakwater. The conditions on that night warranted plenty of ocean dives before tackling a beach entry at night with surge and 8 feet of vis once at depth. This may or may not have been their first trip to the ocean for diving. (What an awesome experience it would have been had this accident not happened).

I was thinking what the outcome might have been if they had been diving in a team of three. We often do so, and I feel for some situations a team of three is ideal.

Lamont's Rock Bottom link in his signature is something EVERYONE needs to know, understand, and apply to EVERY dive. Yours and your buddies life depend on it.

Absolutely crazy to take that group on that dive. The Navy SEALS would not have taken a group with so few dives on a similar mission/excursion.

 

[Steve50]

If I'm organizing a trip for minors, I'd have a "pro" watching every buddy pair...

 

[Lobzilla]

If I'm organizing a trip for minors, I'd have a "pro" watching every buddy pair...

Can't hurt but you need a little more than watching to make adults out of minors.

 

[Peter_C]

Absolutely crazy to take that group on that dive. The Navy SEALS would not have taken a group with so few dives on a similar mission/excursion.

Since you seem to know how many dives they had, care to share with us? 5? 10? 50? 100? At this point we don't know, until someone shares facts.

These are the same conditions I learned to dive in, except we shore dove and had to make it back to our exit point so navigation was important. My gal was taking her open water class (Private instructor) this past weekend in the same conditions along with about 50 other students.

 

[Steve50]

Can't hurt but you need a little more than watching to make adults out of minors.

Not trying to make adults - just returning them to their family.

 

[Tortuga68]

Bit late for that Steve, sorry

I think there's some confusion about the status of these divers... as I read it, they were high school 'students' doing an oceanagraphic 'course' - but 'certified divers'

Minors, adults, whatever - how about some facts for a change

 

[mdb]

The fact that two young men died together in what was, or should have been, a great field trip organized by their HS oceanographic class makes this tragedy particularly poignant.

We have opinions from-this never would have happened if you had done this or that-and others who advocate getting to the surface, dropping weights and making a free ascent, and yet others who somehow blame the lack of adult supervision or find some blame with the instruction. This whole sad incident has sparked some lively conversation.

Facts are that two young men are dead. What they should have done or could have done can be debated forever. What can be learned is what to do when the non planned occurs.

 

[Steve50]

Bit late for that Steve, sorry

Obviously - just offering a high probablility solution for future similiar outings...

 

[Blue Sparkle]

The one news cast where they interviewed a guy had mentioned that their gas may have not been on before they jumped.

I know you're not saying that's your theory, and I heard a dive shop employee say that as well, in the news interview; but I have to think he was simply guessing with even fewer facts that we have. I say that because I believe it is "fact" at this point that one of their tanks was empty, and the other one nearly empty, when they were found.

I may be missing something, but even if they jumped in with full tanks that were not turned on and so plummeted to the bottom, it's hard for me to imagine any injury they could have that would allow them to subsequently turn on and then fully breath down full tanks to empty/nearly empty and yet not get to the surface.

Unless there could be some sort of injury (major ear barotrauma/vertigo?) from the plummet that could render them nearly incapacitated but disoriented? But then it's hard to imagine them each being able to open the other's (or their own) tank valves if they were that bad off, isn't it? (I'm open to the opinions of more experienced/medical divers here.)

Blue Sparkle

PS: I'm sorry I mentioned MOF! I do think what I said before that is supposed to be true though, which is that panicked divers can feel claustrophobic and then rip their masks off in order to feel "free." I guess somehow that turned into an urban legend that MOF divers might be in trouble, and that some instructors have passed that along (interestingly, it was all four OW instructors that I have had, spanning four years and a 2,000 mile geographical range). Anyway, never mind on that one! :blush:

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Bob:

Thanks for the insight into the conditons out your way. I have not put any blame in instruction is this case, as I remember reading that some of you knew who it was and felt that was not the issue. A decision that one would make under normal conditions may not be the same when that one becomes part of a group. Different mind set. I also feel that with 19 kids the planning would have been complexe at best. How does one go about planning a dive for 19 kids, x amount of adults, as far as gas planning goes???? I feel that would have been a large logistical task at best. Maybe I am over thinking this??? While they should be responsible for themselves and their own planning, we are still talking about kids. I would not leave my grocey list planning up to any high school student I met let alone hope that they packed clean underware. My parents could have and did talk to me till they were blue in the face, but did I listen, not really. I may have known better, but as kids we push the limits and advise that are given. Just because someone can get cert. or pilot lic. does not make them mature adults and make good decisions. I still cannot put my head around the fact that if one got into trouble why the other would not have tried to save himself??? The one news cast where they interviewed a guy had mentioned that their gas may have not been on before they jumped. Just maybe, if the conditions out there are as you said that under these circumstances, another site with more viz would have been better??

Sure they're kids ... but at their age, almost every kid is driving a car. Driving a car is far more dangerous than scuba diving ... by virtually any statistic you care to measure. Yet we think nothing of giving kids this age responsibility for piloting a multi-ton missile in public.

Life is a risk ... and at some point you have to turn them loose and let them start discovering how to deal with it.

As far as the speculation about their gas not being on ... I don't think so. If their gas had not been turned on, they would've been found with full tanks ... not empty ones.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)