Equipment failures, ocean conditions, medical problems, entrapment, and more, anything can happen and when it does you best be able to handle it.
Two fatalities in Monterey
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Equipment failures, ocean conditions, medical problems, entrapment, and more, anything can happen and when it does you best be able to handle it.
Anti-Hero
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Anti-Hero
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I did not run out of air, I had so called "buddies" or "team" members" who had issues. With their wide eyes and thrashing panic I left them my tanks and regs and went to the surface. All the panicked and distressed divers made it to the surface, in a sea of bubbles and excuses. In two cases we had already sent divers back down to see if we could assist the panicked divers. It was not necessary.
I have made one buddy breathing ascent with a very experienced diver who had a HP 1st stage failure. He came over my head at about 110 fsw and took my primary, I went onto to my secondary, a Poseidon, and we made a very controlled ascent.
I dive solo these days, much safer.
I have made one buddy breathing ascent with a very experienced diver who had a HP 1st stage failure. He came over my head at about 110 fsw and took my primary, I went onto to my secondary, a Poseidon, and we made a very controlled ascent.
I dive solo these days, much safer.
I think one brave young man tried to save his OOA friend and both died.
Anti-Hero
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Richard, I, for one, am unwilling to ask my friends for specific information on this incident. They are "not doing so well" but they are getting a lot of support from within their community.
I just can't imagine how I'd be responding to this had I been one of the instructors -- and I pray I'll never find out.
I just can't imagine how I'd be responding to this had I been one of the instructors -- and I pray I'll never find out.
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I agree with you here, however ... a buoyant ascent is not a ticket to death, especially if practiced. I estimate that my students alone have made in excess of 100,000 ascents in full gear without a weightbelt, no accidents, no embolisms, no deaths, no injuries (and that's just my classes, not other courses at other schools). Buoyant ascents can be taught with minimal risk and, IMOH, should be taught.
I sympathize, but without accurate data we'll never have any chance of knowing (or even reasonably speculating about) what happened, and that does everyone a disservice.
Bubbletrubble
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The following are, at best, tangential (some speculative) discussion points, but I think I'll share them anyway...
Do instructional agencies give instructors enough latitude to deny certification to an OW student based on the student's attitude/maturity level alone? FWIW, I'm not just talking about younger dive students. It could be a middle-aged or older student as well.
We hear about "standards"-based curricula and the word "mastery" bandied about with certain scuba instructional agencies. We also have instructors who admit that just because they wouldn't complete the task/skill in a certain way, so long as the student fulfills the "standard" (the agency's definition of "mastery"/proficiency is attained), the task is considered completed.
Do "standards" ever address the mental attitude of a student? The reason I ask specifically about this is that an instructor would not be empowered to withhold/deny certification to a student for this reason if the standards never addressed it. Furthermore, it would be at the discretion of the instructor to even mention approaching the sport with the "right mental attitude" (conservative gas management, conservative dive planning, being a good buddy, not diving in too challenging conditions, making it a habit to practice OW skills on a consistent basis, thinking through emergency situations, being assertive enough to do the right thing despite authority figures instructing otherwise, etc.) in the course of the class.
I realize that Junior Open Water Diver programs exist, and AFAIK the certification for a diver ages 12-14 requires that a certified adult accompany him/her on all dives. In this sense, "to accompany" means to buddy up with (I think). Why is this restriction placed on Junior Open Water divers? If the reason for having adult supervision is to compensate for a potential lack of maturity...why draw the line at age 15? Is there something special about the maturity level of 15-year-olds? Is it because 15-year-olds can get driver's permits? Are 15-year-olds thought to possess enough maturity to handle the responsibilities of an OW diving situation?
I think back to when I was in high school. I participated in varsity-level sports and played a leadership role on all of the teams with which I played. I took challenging academic classes. I was active in student government. I was responsible by all accounts, from the perspective of any third party. From the ages 15-17, was I mature enough to handle the responsibilities of OW diving? I don't think so. Realistic assessment of my own limits wasn't in my vocabulary at that time.
In this incident, we have two teenagers (ages 16 and 17) who somehow got in over their heads. We also know that they were both on the football team (JV?). I'm thinking back to when I played high school sports and what my attitude toward scuba diving might have been. Participation in team sports really drives home the notion of taking care of other players on your team. I think these guys knew what it meant to be dive buddies and they took that responsibility seriously. Unfortunately, I get the sneaking suspicion that that healthy I've-got-my-brother's-back and we-can-do-this-if-we-just-stick-together attitude may have led to the double fatality.
It's a difficult thing to do, but if you try to place yourself in the shoes of the second diver who was perhaps responding to the OOA diver, what would be going through your mind as the incident unfolded? I can imagine the OOA diver was frantically searching for an alternative air source. I can imagine that a physical altercation of some sort ensued, based mainly on the information that one diver was found maskless. I can also imagine that the panicked OOA diver probably escalated the situation to a level of violence that the second diver was not prepared for. After all, we are talking about a couple of football players here.
Until I took a Rescue class, I did not think much about how violent a panicked diver could get. I think experienced instructors/DMs/AIs/boat crews have a healthy appreciation for this.
If more comprehensive rescue procedures had been part of the basic OW class, would this accident have happened?
If each teenager had been buddied up with a certified responsible adult with rescue training, could something like this have happened?
To be clear, I'm not placing the blame for this tragedy on any instructional agency, instructor, dive op, parent, or even on the teenagers themselves.
I don't know the answer to these questions, but it's something to think about...
Do instructional agencies give instructors enough latitude to deny certification to an OW student based on the student's attitude/maturity level alone? FWIW, I'm not just talking about younger dive students. It could be a middle-aged or older student as well.
We hear about "standards"-based curricula and the word "mastery" bandied about with certain scuba instructional agencies. We also have instructors who admit that just because they wouldn't complete the task/skill in a certain way, so long as the student fulfills the "standard" (the agency's definition of "mastery"/proficiency is attained), the task is considered completed.
Do "standards" ever address the mental attitude of a student? The reason I ask specifically about this is that an instructor would not be empowered to withhold/deny certification to a student for this reason if the standards never addressed it. Furthermore, it would be at the discretion of the instructor to even mention approaching the sport with the "right mental attitude" (conservative gas management, conservative dive planning, being a good buddy, not diving in too challenging conditions, making it a habit to practice OW skills on a consistent basis, thinking through emergency situations, being assertive enough to do the right thing despite authority figures instructing otherwise, etc.) in the course of the class.
I realize that Junior Open Water Diver programs exist, and AFAIK the certification for a diver ages 12-14 requires that a certified adult accompany him/her on all dives. In this sense, "to accompany" means to buddy up with (I think). Why is this restriction placed on Junior Open Water divers? If the reason for having adult supervision is to compensate for a potential lack of maturity...why draw the line at age 15? Is there something special about the maturity level of 15-year-olds? Is it because 15-year-olds can get driver's permits? Are 15-year-olds thought to possess enough maturity to handle the responsibilities of an OW diving situation?
I think back to when I was in high school. I participated in varsity-level sports and played a leadership role on all of the teams with which I played. I took challenging academic classes. I was active in student government. I was responsible by all accounts, from the perspective of any third party. From the ages 15-17, was I mature enough to handle the responsibilities of OW diving? I don't think so. Realistic assessment of my own limits wasn't in my vocabulary at that time.
In this incident, we have two teenagers (ages 16 and 17) who somehow got in over their heads. We also know that they were both on the football team (JV?). I'm thinking back to when I played high school sports and what my attitude toward scuba diving might have been. Participation in team sports really drives home the notion of taking care of other players on your team. I think these guys knew what it meant to be dive buddies and they took that responsibility seriously. Unfortunately, I get the sneaking suspicion that that healthy I've-got-my-brother's-back and we-can-do-this-if-we-just-stick-together attitude may have led to the double fatality.
It's a difficult thing to do, but if you try to place yourself in the shoes of the second diver who was perhaps responding to the OOA diver, what would be going through your mind as the incident unfolded? I can imagine the OOA diver was frantically searching for an alternative air source. I can imagine that a physical altercation of some sort ensued, based mainly on the information that one diver was found maskless. I can also imagine that the panicked OOA diver probably escalated the situation to a level of violence that the second diver was not prepared for. After all, we are talking about a couple of football players here.
Until I took a Rescue class, I did not think much about how violent a panicked diver could get. I think experienced instructors/DMs/AIs/boat crews have a healthy appreciation for this.
If more comprehensive rescue procedures had been part of the basic OW class, would this accident have happened?
If each teenager had been buddied up with a certified responsible adult with rescue training, could something like this have happened?
To be clear, I'm not placing the blame for this tragedy on any instructional agency, instructor, dive op, parent, or even on the teenagers themselves.
I don't know the answer to these questions, but it's something to think about...
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