Trim in midwater

[Steve R]

According to my instructor, I was up to 30 degrees off horizontal at times.

Yeah, I know what's wrong, and I have plans in place to fix it.

I just wanted to know why it was so important. I'm glad people are offering thoughts, although I may not find many of them very convincing.

Well then I guess by what I have been told you didn't measure up to the maximum 20 degree limit.

I agree with RJ however in that asking us will amount to nothing. I think you know who you need to ask because what we think really doesn't matter, and all of our arguments pro or con have been done to death and you were already aware of them anyway MTL.

I think most of us would agree that perfect trim at all points during a dive, while ideal, isn't what we would measure up to all the time on every dive. So what, really. I do know people that want to hang themselves over stuff like this. They need to get over it. Personally it takes the fun right out of it for me to even be around it.

GUE training, AFAIK, IS about nit-picking the little things to death so you don't become a slob like most other divers from the ABC organizations, at least the ones I have witnessed in most cases. I think that is the point, more so than being 10 degrees over the limit at any point in time.

You're worrying about this way too much.

 

[JeffG]

You're worrying about this way too much.

Well, her instructor is withholding certification because of it.

 

[rjack321]

Well, her instructor is withholding certification because of it.

Yes, and that's senselessly punative. I think we can all agree that LCF tries hard to fix every problem presented to her. So pointing out the midwater trim "problem" should be sufficient. While I don't think students should get cards for effort, demanding that every little bitty issue get resolved before getting your license to learn at your new level is exasperating.

 

[Steve R]

Well, her instructor is withholding certification because of it.

yup.

So you have to ask yourself why she even bothered to start this thread in the first place. We can't get her a card, and by her own admission, she knows what's wrong and knows how to fix it. End of thread if that is her issue.

The reasons why don't even matter, but then again I know she's more than smart enough to have figured it out without asking, long ago. From the length of time she's been on scubaboard, and the amount of that time involved in the DIR forum, it's inconceivable for her not to know the reasons. Whether she agrees with them is quite irrelevant.

I guess I am not clear what she is looking for.

A card, a pat on the back, an answer to why GUE wants no more than 20 degree off trim.......

I am at a loss.

These answers, or at least the mindset of why, are given on just about every DIR thread.

RJ has said it twice already. Senseless and punitive.

Not sure how much senseless there is about it in it's most raw form, but the way it plays out in reality does seem to me to be quite senseless a lot of the time.

I think to caring instructors, the decision to pass or fail a student based on a couple degrees is a tough call. I'd like to think it must be more than that pettiness, personally.

I will say <off topic> I have seen IMO this type of action played out before a lot of times with GUE instruction, so it is of no surprise to me. It's like failing XX% of students is a merit badge. Personally I think if the student failure is that bad they need to fix the program.

But then again what I think here really has no bearing on her individual situation, nor is this a class-failure rate 'thing'.</end off topic>

<shrug> :blinking:

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Why is it I get the feeling that this trim issue must be worse than what we would like to believe?

Actually, it's not ...

Honestly Lynn, between you and Peter and all your worri-some questions and threads, I think my best advice would be to chilax a bit and just go diving for the sake of the fun of it, for a change.

Her and Peter's "worrisome" questions and threads comprise a significant percentage of what gets discussed here. I think a big part of why they put it here is to generate conversation ... because you experienced DIR folks have been through these issues, and there's a lot of less experienced DIR folks who may be having similar issues, but are afraid to ask about it.

But as for the last bit, it's pretty much what I've advised as well ...

If you know what it is you're doing not as well as you'd like, and you know how to fix it, which I am sure you do, then just go diving.

Good advice ... but you're giving it to someone who's gonna probably log 200 or more dives this year ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Rick Inman]

I wouldn't withhold certification from someone at the DIRF/triox level for marginal (midwater at that) trim.

Except that, isn't the requirement for a "tech" pass in fundies keeping your out-o-trim below 30%? I can see why, in triox class they would hold you to the same standard as a fundies pass (weather I agree with it or not).

 

[JeffG]

RJ has said it twice already. Senseless and punitive.

Not sure how much senseless there is about it in it's most raw form, but the way it plays out in reality does seem to me to be quite senseless a lot of the time.

I think to caring instructors, the decision to pass or fail a student based on a couple degrees is a tough call. I'd like to think it must be more than that pettiness, personally.

I will say <off topic> I have seen IMO this type of action played out before a lot of times with GUE instruction, so it is of no surprise to me. It's like failing XX% of students is a merit badge. Personally I think if the student failure is that bad they need to fix the program.

But then again what I think here really has no bearing on her individual situation, nor is this a class-failure rate 'thing'.</end off topic>

<shrug> :blinking:

It just makes me glad that I found a good TDI instructor.

 

[Jason B]

Except that, isn't the requirement for a "tech" pass in fundies keeping your out-o-trim below 30%? I can see why, in triox class they would hold you to the same standard as a fundies pass (weather I agree with it or not).

A tech pass from fundies requires less than 20 degrees off on trim.

A rec pass requires it be 30 degrees or less.

A rec pass is required to take rec triox.

 

[Steve R]

Well Bob, it seems you and I always tend to say about the same thing, we just don't often see it that way.

As for Jeff, you just plain got lucky dude, but don't you dare give TDI any credit for it lol

 

[JeffG]

As for Jeff, you just plain got lucky dude lol

I was trying to think of a real snappy comeback, but all I could think of was "Yep".

It must be friday.