To those considering an OW class...

[wallacm]

I agree with wreck wrench. I think that the 2+2 class could be something like $300 for the course and the longer class could be like $150. So since the longer class is cheaper, most people would opt more for that (in diving money is always an issue). I think that the the skills that are being taught in the OW are the die hard nesscities. Some of the other stuff is extra that should come in time. But what I see agencies doing with the boat/ shore entry and fine tuning of buoyancy specialties, is they are shortening the OW class, but you are basically required to take those class if you decide to continue your diving career.

I think the main thing is the instructors, i think that instructors should be held to a higher level of standards. not a do as i say not as i do type deal. If the instructor does something and say well i have done this for years, but the agency says to do it this way, the students are going to follow the instructors example and say well he's done it for years. It was just like in my cave training class, you may have 99 perfect dives but then there is that 1, that you have an emergency. If a student starts having trouble, the instructor needs to help them. And if they did sign up for the 2+2 class, and are having major trouble with their buoyancy, or are very reluctant to take their mask off, the instructor should tell the class in the beginning that they can choose not to certify a person, but don't feel discouraged, because it is a completely different environment, and I will continue to work with you until you are comfortable, and then I will sign the certification card. I think that ow training is like cave training. its not the agency you go with, its the instructor that you have.

Anyways, as a short summary, I do think that something needs to change in our training agency, not so much shortening the classes, but require a greater standard of skills, and not if you pay your money your certified. Today's scuba equipment is very reliable, and as long as you stay in No Deco limits in Open water, 99% of the time your dives will be easy going and pleasurable with no emergencies.

 

[Devil505]

As a very experienced, 60 yr old diver, I must disagree. How someone will take to diving & how safe they will be is much more dependant on the type of person him/herself rather than the amount of hours they took in a formal dive course. I started diving in the late 1960s & was never cerified until 2 years ago. I don't think there is any substitution for good old experience in the open ocean. Sure, you need to learn basic safety skills & develop a rudimentary ease in the ocean, but, that can be learned in the present abbreviated OW courses.......Beyond that what you need is just experience! (no amount of formal course time will fit all new divers)

 

[JungleJoe]

There is NO WAY a short class can teach a person SKILLS, it can let them know about things, but to learn a skill it takes experience. I'd rather see it done in a classroom for the basics that they are supposed to teach SKILLS and no pass you until you can master them.

I started diving in 8'th grade, the class was months long and you would NOT pass unless you could demonstrate the proper skills.

This 2 day crap is just people dont want to invest time, nor would I want to dive with them till they get some more bottom time, hopefully with one of the instructors that ran the course.

 

[haha49]

The class i took was 5 open watter dives with 8 pool dives to get ready for it.. and part of the pool dives was doing the chapters in the book and doing the test befor we got to the class and reviewing it after we finished it.. then we had to do a final test and more skills in the pool befor the open ocean.. and then more skills while you dive in the ocean all in all i got over 160 hours in the ocean doing skills and stuff and another 100 hours in the pool.. we also got a free night of dry suit orentation because its winter and the watter can be a bit chilly so we did all 5 ocean dives in a dry suit
the thing was the reason we got so much pool time was it was in a private pool that was 10 ft deep and it wasnt at a local recenter were they limit you too 1 hour then you have to get out of the pool.. it was a long course and i cant see them shortening it anymore as it was alot of time to get your certifcation.. but in the end i did it and i bought the gear execpt an exposer suit as its very expensive to get.. (dry suit) so im going to just rent tanks weights and suit for a while befor i end up buying a suit.. to see how i like it..

 

[Dive-aholic]

You're saying you spent 160 hours in open water and 100 hours in the pool to get an open water certification? Some instructor candidates don't even have 100 hours of bottom time when they finish their instructor course. Where did you do this course and how much did you pay for it?

 

[pupdiver]

The class i took was 5 open watter dives with 8 pool dives to get ready for it.. and part of the pool dives was doing the chapters in the book and doing the test befor we got to the class and reviewing it after we finished it.. then we had to do a final test and more skills in the pool befor the open ocean.. and then more skills while you dive in the ocean all in all i got over 160 hours in the ocean doing skills and stuff and another 100 hours in the pool.. we also got a free night of dry suit orentation because its winter and the watter can be a bit chilly so we did all 5 ocean dives in a dry suit
the thing was the reason we got so much pool time was it was in a private pool that was 10 ft deep and it wasnt at a local recenter were they limit you too 1 hour then you have to get out of the pool.. it was a long course and i cant see them shortening it anymore as it was alot of time to get your certifcation.. but in the end i did it and i bought the gear execpt an exposer suit as its very expensive to get.. (dry suit) so im going to just rent tanks weights and suit for a while befor i end up buying a suit.. to see how i like it..

260 hours not including classroom time? How much did this course cost? Even if they only charged $5 an hour (less than minimum wage!), it would be $1300 just to get OW certification. Also, at 8 hours a day this would be a commitment of more than 32 full days. If you have a full time job, you would probably have to do this on weekends. If you devote Saturday and Sunday entirely, it would have taken you 16 weeks to get certified.

I think I also had 5 open water dives when I got certified, but nowhere near your 160 hours in the ocean. I'm not sure I would want to average 32 hours per dive even with the surface time. My fingers would get all pruny.

 

[deepedge]

I agree...

First, a 'resort' course is a great idea, as long as the parameters are A)stay with intructor B) dive in only very good conditions and C) let the diver KNOW this is an exploratory ONLY....

But as to courses... first, the course is only as good as the instructor.. I've accompanied friend on short courses that were FAR better than other longer courses...

This being said.. this is why I'm now taking my instructors.. to be able to teach many friends who want to get their CCards how to do it RIGHT. I doubt I'd ever be interested in working for a shop or resort (beside, I have a real job.. HA) as the pressure to do more for less is omnipresent.

And it's not just about the safety of the diver.. nor the safety of those they are diving with (how many accidents end up being dual fatalities.. ugh) but spend time on understand how the diver impacts that he is in.. the ocean and the life there in... WAY too little there.. and if they are just getting 'check dives' down in the keys.. is the instructor there going to really take the time to 'teach' eco-interaction??? I've seen way to may check dives.. and never seen that happen..

I'd like to see the agencies rethink their cirricula, and the approach.. It would make our sport safer... retain more divers... make better divers.. and protect that which we go down to see....

And ya know what.. that ultimately would mean more $ for the dive ops as well....

Parham

 

[oceanaddicted]

I like your thinking here. You are so right when you say it is the quality of the instructor that makes the sport safer, trains the students on ALL aspects of diving within the OW limits, and teaches them respect for our oceans along with the critters who live in them. However, I did want to mention that not all instructors sort of skip over the marine environment lecture. I teach in Florida and it is an absolute must to be sure my students understand the protocol for ocean diving when it comes to the animals living in it. My rule is plain and simple: Don't touch ANYTHING and control your buoyancy! If my student want to try a little underwater grocery shopping I recommend that they be current on the laws governing those critters, and to never take more than they could eat at one dinner. I take issue with those who make an attempt to stock their freezers. While it is not illegal, there are some animal species who do not reproduce fast enough to keep up with the demand. The commercial industry is highly regulated. Add to that the recreational hunters and you can see how easy it is to deplete the populations. Especially if any diver takes more than the limit, undersized animals, or females that are egg laden. Florida has very severe penalties for any of that if you are caught. And the Marine Patrol is quite alive and well here. It's not worth the risk. The other issue is reef damage. We get enough natural damage from storms here and other problems caused from drastic water temp changes. This is not to mention ships that ground by accident, idiots who drop anchor on the reefs instead of in sand or tying up to the buoys. And then there's the trash some dingbats throw overboard. Our reefs are 7000 years old (off the Keys) and grow at a very slow rate. Touching the coral makes it vulnerable to disease. I make it a point to cover all of this in my OW class. Critters and reefs are to be protected for us, our children and our grandchildren. At the rate they are being destroyed it is unlikely the reefs off Florida will be around for our grandchildren. I find the instructor at fault for not being pointed about teaching conservation of the ocean environment.

As for resort courses, I don't teach them. Yes there is a little profit involved, but I find if I do a sort of "Discover Scuba" in the pool where I can control the students a lot better, then they gain interest quickly, take my class, and have something to show for it after all is said and done. Some Resort Instructors have been known to sort of hold back explaining that there is no certification for a Resort Course. My profit lies in the fact that once they've gone thru OW training, they are eager for more advanced training and they keep coming back to me. My Discover Scuba is free.

Like you, I am quite leery of some instructors having inherited students from those who have scared the bejesus out of them. I inhereited 3 last year from a shop who had paired a brand new Instructor with a brand new Divemaster. They had students removing and replacing the scuba unit in 60 fsw. Imagine how disastrous that could have been while still keeping the weight belt on. They were also overweighted. Then there's another one who trains OW students in an overhead environment where the vis is 10 feet on a good day with no down lines and the shallowest spot it 80' with one corner dipping to 240'.

So I totally agree that it is the Instructor that plays the most important role. Just my two cents worth.

 

[haha49]

i ment minites not hours :11doh:

 

[Dive-aholic]

Okay, that makes more sense. My students spend a little more time in the water during open water, depending on their air consumption. They definitely spend a lot more time in confined water sessions. 100 minutes for confined water is not much at all. We average 60-90 minutes per session with only 2 students in the water.