To those considering an OW class...

[MikeFerrara]

If shops started charging $1500-$2000 for an OW course they would be able to provide quality training, pay an instructor properly and make money.

I disagree. I've talked with instructors, DM's and shop owners all over the country in person and here on the board, all over the world. So many of them are divers who were trained by the same standards we have now and don't have the frame of reference necessary to even know what your talking about.

Regardless of how short their classes are or what yoyo's their students are in the water, they honestly believe that they ARE teaching a good class and most see no reason to change. I've seen some lousy classes and I've seen some divers certified with no skill at all but I have never met an instructor who was doing a lousy job on purpose. By the agency definition and by everything they know, they are doing a good job.

The first course director I had when I first became an instructor is an absolute master at teaching short classes. He knows every word of the standards and exactly how to use it to get students through very fast and efficient. He taught me to do the same.

The very first class that I ever taught was an OW class of 6 students. I had to conduct the CW portion with no DM and, at that, the pool was new and chems were off and we didn't have 5 ft of vis in the pool. It took me 6 hours to get 6 students through the 5 CW modules and I got mildly balled out for spending too much time in the pool. This is how I learned to teach and in the begining, I tried really hard to be good at being FAST. I didn't want more class time or more pool time. I wanted to be faster so I could do with less.

It took a lot of close calls and seeing a couple of people hurt to get me thinking that maybe there was a better way.

 

[Azza]

I disagree. I've talked with instructors, DM's and shop owners all over the country in person and here on the board, all over the world. So many of them are divers who were trained by the same standards we have now and don't have the frame of reference necessary to even know what your talking about.

Thats a very sad though Mike.
how about I rephrase that
If shops started charging $1500-$2000 for an OW course they would be in a better financial position to provide quality training, pay an instructor properly and make money.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

There is one avenue for decent training still available out there, that I'm aware still exists, but its only open to a very few. When I was in college in the 1970s you could sign up for scuba training through the university. It was a NAUI open water course that extended throughout the entire 10-week term, twice a week for 1.5 hours or 3 hours a week, total a 30 hour class. All classroom and pool, the open water dives were additional and done over the break, even back then. 30 hours of classroom and pool allowed the instructor, an ex-navy diver, to drill us in in-water skills (e.g. no mask swimming, blacked out mask swimming, all sorts of failure drills, dive down put your gear on and swim up exercises, bouyancy drills, etc. etc. All my (diving) life I've considered myself lucky to have had 30 hours of supervised instruction to start out with. After I got out of the Marines I went back to MSU and taught the same courses myself in the 1980s. They're still available today.

This avenue continues to be available at various Universities all over the US, but only to college students at each of those schools. Still...its an option that I suspect continues to turn out superior open water students...

 

[Thalassamania]

This avenue continues to be available at various Universities all over the US, but only to college students at each of those schools. Still...its an option that I suspect continues to turn out superior open water students.

Yes, that’s true enough. But there’s trouble there also. I know of several schools that have shut down training programs and brought in a lowest bidder LDS to teach their recreational diving courses.

 

[MikeFerrara]

There are lots of universities that offer diving. Some are part of the phys-ed department and some are adult con-ed courses. Very often they are just your regular PADI course stretched out to fit the school schedule but otherwise taught to the same standards as any other course. Most courses that PADI offers are approved for college credit by the ACE.

My personal experience with local universities (Perdue is local to me) was NOT good but, I'll leave that story for another time.

 

[Mafiaman]

A quote from SFC Coe, Bravo team leader 85th USAFAD 7th army Europe 1982.
"95% of people 95% of the time think they can do it better or are smarter the 95% of the rest of us."

 

[Doc Intrepid]

Ah well...thats too bad.

Pretty soon we'll all sound like geezers sitting on our porch in rockers, wheezing "well hell, back in MY day...a scuba course was a damned SCUBA course!"...and of course we'll be completely correct, utterly ignored, and no one will give a damn...

 

[Thalassamania]

Most courses that PADI offers are approved for college credit by the ACE.

I remember getting something in the campus mail from the Dean of Arts and Sciences that a student wanted to get credit for my class because he had a PADI card included was a letter from PADI that said that the American Council of Education recommends 1 PE credit for his Open Water certification and included a piece of paper that PADI ginned up to look like a college transcript. It was amazing. Anyway, I got this and sent a note back that I did not teach a PE course, but rather an engineering course, that my course was upper division not lower division and that my course was 4 credits not 1. But I offered to permit him to challenge the course: take a swim test, free diving test, scuba test and final written exam. Would it supprise you to hear that he could not swim 400 meters? And he had the nerve to complain that you didn't need to swim to be able to dive. How many of you can remember when a 440yd swim was a course entry requirement, per standards? Then it was moved to, "can complete by the end of the course," then reduced to 220, etc. reductum ad absurdum.

 

[MikeFerrara]

A quote from SFC Coe, Bravo team leader 85th USAFAD 7th army Europe 1982.
"95% of people 95% of the time think they can do it better or are smarter the 95% of the rest of us."

Sounds like a good reason to go on thinking that you have it all down and don't need to listen to anybody.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Ah well...thats too bad.

Pretty soon we'll all sound like geezers sitting on our porch in rockers, wheezing "well hell, back in MY day...a scuba course was a damned SCUBA course!"...and of course we'll be completely correct, utterly ignored, and no one will give a damn...

Not very many give a damn now. I don't see that as a problem. Over the years, just on this site alone, there have been scores of examples of instructors who listened to and barrowed methods from other instructors with great results. I've been on both sides of that.

For every single instructor who sifts through all this talk and improves the way he/she teaches a little for the better, how many students are effected?

I guess what I'm getting at is, we don't need to too concerned with numbers. One is worth the effort. I don't know about you but I'm not trying to save the world, the industry or even an agency. I don't care about the industry or the agencies. I'm happy with putting a different point of view out there and others can take it anyway they want.