Tipping - how much and are we cheap

[lamont]

I don't really do vacation diving, so I can't comment on various customs. I know that I generally tip heavily because you make friends that way. I'll generally tip 18-20% at restaurants rather than the expected 15%, and more at places that I go to often, and it takes an awful lot to piss me off and shaft them on the tip. I'm not trying to grade them or participate in some kind of "meritocracy".

And on dive boats, the same thing roughly goes. And there I'm not so concerned about getting fed, I'm there to dive, not eat, and I've generally got my stuff together so I don't need any DM help. I'm more concerned that they're going to be there for me if I take a type 2 hit -- and they're aware of other boat traffic on the surface and will threaten to ram them to keep them off me when I'm down there.

YMMV.

Oh yeah, dropping us at slack gets brownie points, too. Knowing the good dive sites and when and how to dive them...

 

[Santa]

I have a feeling that we tend to tip people in "people-type" jobs - partly because we actually get to meet them but maybe also because we realize that forced human interaction can be rather taxing on a worker. We all know that a certain amount of jerks visit restaurants and that anyone who can face that and still manage a smile now and then is doing a pretty good job. That goes for diving too.

Then, I just want to add, it's definately possible to make the wage-system work so that people don't rely on tips for survival. It works pretty well here in Denmark - the unions make sure it's pretty open season on employers who try to stiff their employees.

I've worked only few crap jobs where this didn't apply - but those are rare and the people who do it know what they're getting into.

that said being a waiter or waitress - or divemaster - is of course always underpaid, per se ;0)

 

[TheDavil]

I know that I generally tip heavily because you make friends that way.

We have something in common - we both have to pay people to be our friends...


Sorry - couldn't resist...


David

 

[DallasNewbie]

See post #96 for my reasoning. Then perhaps address my points instead of making blatant, assumptuous attacks.

Here goes. The reasoning in post #96 is based on a logical fallacy called argument by analogy. The people you listed in your post are "like" DM's and waiters, but are not "like" DMs and waiters in the way that makes us want to tip the latter. The people listed in your post may expect tips, and may be under paid, but they are not usually paid less than minimum wage because the remainer is expected to be made up in tips. In some parts of the world, if you don't tip your DM, he will make nothing. In the US, waiters make so little in salary that it wouldn't be worth their time to wait on you if it weren't for the tips. These people take these jobs knowing that their total compensation depends on how good of a job they do. For those of us who don't desire to pay for crappy service, this is a good thing.

There's a second logical fallacy known as a strawman represented in your reasoning. I don't think anyone argued that you should tip everyone who expects it. IMO, you should tip people for one of two reasons: 1) they provided a service, and their primary compensation for this service is tips; and 2) they provided a service, for which they are compensated, but they provided the service in such a way that additional recognition or appreciation is appropriate.

You may not like the tipping situation in some places, but rest assured that it is not the waiters and waitresses who misunderstand the rules of the game, it is you. Eating in a restaurant, or going on a dive where you know tipping is expected, but planning to not tip is tantamount to fraud. You are procuring a service for which a person expects to be paid, even though you have no intention of paying. Yes, their expectation is based on their own misconception, but if you know of their misconception and do not correct it becauase you expect to benefit from it, that's fraud.

 

[labaum]

DallasNewbie, you and I are in (as they say) violent agreement
Throughout my life I've seen people fail to leave tips (or even take tips off the table when no one was looking, but that's a different matter). I admit, it's a hot button issue of mine.
There's the economic stiff: "Tipping perpetuates a corrupt, unfair system that demeans the proletariat on behalf of the bosses. I'm not just stiffing the DM, I'm striking a blow for freedom. Viva Che! I'm sending a larger message to Bill Gates and that will teach the DM an important lesson.".
The cultural stiff: "Well, when I was in Indo-China fighting with the French we never tipped, so why do I need to tip in North America. Dien Bien Phu...British Columbia, what's the difference?"
The right wing stiff: "Why should I give those underpaid deadbeats anything, they picked their lot in life and nobody tips me for my job. Anyway, DMs love their jobs and personal satisfaction should be reward enough".
The impossible standards stiff: "I only tip DMs when they pick me up at my house, personally fill my tanks with mountain air, lower me into the water, and give me a loving squeeze in my special place."
The inept social stiff: "I never know who to tip and how much to tip so I don't tip anybody. That's fair, isn't it?"
The macho stiff: "No one's gonna tell me what to do, who cares if everyone else is doing it and it's universally accepted? Tipping is for lemmings. TIP THIS PAL".
The fairness stiff: "I don't tip my priest or policeman, so I also don't tip my DM, that'll teach 'em a lesson and it's the only fair way".
The Anti US stiff: "I'm kinda sick of a growing American cultural concept of entitlement, and I'll tend to do the opposite of what is believed to be such just to make the point."
And the asinine stiff: "Hey, you don't tip your brain surgeon or the President of Russia and they provide a service too, so why the DM?".
Bottom line, I can't help but think this is all mental "you know what" for "I'm a cheap SOB in a thousand dollars worth of gear looking for a way to hold onto to a few bucks and screw the working man/woman"...but need to rationalize my actions by coming up with a ridiculous, but important sounding theory".

 

[ChillyWaters]

... violent agreement... I admit, it's a hot button issue of min...

Wow, you're amazingly bitter! Perhaps it's time to head out for a dive and cool off...

It's just an Internet discussion, get over it.

- ChillyWaters

 

[ReefHound]

Wow, you're amazingly bitter! Perhaps it's time to head out for a dive and cool off...

It's just an Internet discussion, get over it.

- ChillyWaters

I thought it was pretty decent humor, whether you agree with the content or not.

 

[TheRedHead]

In 1972, George Foster, Professor Emeritus of Anthropology at UC Berkeley, looked at the origins of words meaning "tip" or "gratuity" in several languages. He found that, frequently, it evolved from 'drink money' -- supporting the idea that the practice began in eating establishments. Foster theorized that tipping started with a desire to avoid envy on the part of the server and to send the message that the server should have a drink at the customer's expense.

19th century America embraced the practice of tipping in support of an egalitarian, classless soceity. Anyone who does a personal service should be rewarded because we do not have a "servant class."

 

[EastEndDiver]

egalitarian hell I don't tip my servants.My butler gets a pay check as does my chef and cleaning lady.The rest of the household staff receive a fair wage .

OK OK OK I was dreaming again,BUT it was a good dream.

 

[Santa]

Drinking money

Would that explain the origin of the word "tipsy" too then?