There are some misinformed people, including instructors, bashing PADI and the MSD

[LUBOLD8431]

>>I appreciate your sense of humor. You are sure speaking for a lot of people based on your comment above. The mention of MSD would not get the same response in New England based on my experience.

I disagree, based on my experience, being an Instructor, working in a dive shop, and diving in NE for the last ten years...

When someone tells me that they are an MSD, I have to bite my lip to prevent myself from laughing in their face... Most of the time, these people have an attitude to go along with the MSD card. They think they are the best diver in the world, however they might have less than 100 dives.
I think its a card that the only people that think it means anything are the dive shop owners, and the people that actually paid the money to get it.

 

[diverbrian]

"A diver with a thousand dives done in poor trim in Caribbean water may not be as good a diver as someone with two hundred dives who has been diving in harsher climates and maintaining good trim and buoyancy."

OTOH, A diver with a thousand dives done in poor trim in cold water may not be as good a diver as someone with two hundred dives who has been diving in a warm ocean with strong currents, rough seas and maintaining good trim and buoyancy.

Funny that in New England and the Great Lakes that about the only thing that we don't get is surf and tides on the shore dives (actually New England gets that, too). I have dove wrecks in strong currents and rough seas up here too. I do happen to find comfort levels tend to be higher in warm, clear waters. That is all. I will admit that those comfort levels can be very deceptive as well. This is a debate that has gone on since divers discovered differences in environment. It will continue until people quit diving and I would prefer that we don't debate again here.

But, I will agree (and we make each other's point) that a thousand dives with poor technique in any environment doesn't make one a better diver than someone with an intermediate number of dives that has practiced good technique all the time.

 

[diverbrian]

>>>Interesting, I never researched the IANTD courses. The TDI Deco Procedures course placed a heavy emphasis on instructor discretion more so than other measures. You of course had to be 18, x number of dives, etc. There were students in my class that were not allowed to complete the course in fact. The instructor required them to work out skill shortages before they could continue. My TDI instructor had over 3000 dives, every instructor certification for PADI (Course Director) and TDI that I know of, has many dives in the 200-300' range, etc. I don't recall his complete resume but I was very impressed and very humbled. I learned a lot from this course.

--Matt

That attitude part caused many people to not be allowed to start the course. Our instructor would use that "instructor discretion" bit quite freely too. He also liked to keep his class size to two students.

 

[cornfed]

I chose the Master Diver route because I wanted to expand my skills in ways that would not often be addressed with the Dive Master program. As with *most* instructors in New England, there is more demand for open water classes so instructors and Dive Masters spend most of their time chasing weight belts in 30 feet of water. Again, this is not a knock on instructors or DM's, I appreciate their passion and desire to train. It is just a fact based on student demand. This was not in line with what I wanted to do.

Matt,
Your desire to be a better diver is commendable. From infomation you gave in another thread I believe you worked hard in your specialty classes and got the most out of them and hence your MDS rating. Please try not to take criticism of the program too personally.

 

[Diver0001]

If someone needs an extra card to feel more comfortable in the water, what they may really need is some extra training time in the water...

Well,

It could also be that their skills were already ok but they needed to believe it. I'm not as picky as you are I guess. I don't care *how* people start feeling comfortable as long as they do.

R..

 

[Arnaud]

Well,

It could also be that their skills were already ok but they needed to believe it. I'm not as picky as you are I guess. I don't care *how* people start feeling comfortable as long as they do.

R..

The idea of how the c card system creates a false sense of safety has been discussed at length on the board.

I do care why some are comfortable. Recklessness and experience are two very different reasons...

 

[Diver0001]

I disagree, based on my experience, being an Instructor, working in a dive shop, and diving in NE for the last ten years...

When someone tells me that they are an MSD, I have to bite my lip to prevent myself from laughing in their face... Most of the time, these people have an attitude to go along with the MSD card. They think they are the best diver in the world, however they might have less than 100 dives.
I think its a card that the only people that think it means anything are the dive shop owners, and the people that actually paid the money to get it.

I see lots of DM's/instructors and especially large numbers of (quasi)tek types with big ego's but what your saying is completely foreign in my experience. I don't work in the shop but I do see lots of divers and the ones who get the MSD are (almost) invariably dealing with some kind of insecurity or a need to pin a milestone. Perhaps the "attitude" is a facade to help hide that. This I *do* recognise but I might be seeing it differently than you do. Next time you see it don't look at the attitude, look at the person behind it.

R..

 

[Diver0001]

The idea of how the c card system creates a false sense of safety has been discussed at length on the board.

I do care why some are comfortable. Recklessness and experience are two very different reasons...

We're not on the same page.

I agree with you that you don't want to give people a false sense of security but that's not what I'm on about.

I'm on about people who have it down but aren't sure of themselves yet. I don't know what you would call that kind of personality but self-confidence is not a natural result of gaining skill. Some people will continue to doubt even after they know it. Why do you think inspirational speaches often result in performance improvements? Self confidence is between your ears and believe it or not some people need to pin milestones to play the self confidence game with themselves. Surely you must know people like that. This is all I mean.

R..

 

[GQMedic]

He said "ANAL".. heh heh heh

*snip* SSI tends to be even more anal than NAUI, so it should be even easier for you to swap them out with PADI equivalents.*UNSNIP*

 

[cornfed]

Well atleast PADI requires 9 seperate classes ( OW, AOW, Medic/CPR, Rescue and 5 specialities ) to bestow MSD. Alot of people around here take a 3 day DIR-F class and suddenly think they are Master Scuba Divers.

Remind me again why I should believe you won't take any shot you can at GUE or DIR? I know you've explained it to me before, but I keep forgetting...