There are some misinformed people, including instructors, bashing PADI and the MSD

[matt_unique]

Matt,

A couple of points (as I agree with most of this post)...

1. A diver with a thousand dives done in poor trim in Caribbean water may not be as good a diver as someone with two hundred dives who has been diving in harsher climates and maintaining good trim and buoyancy. Talk to Mike Ferrara and many veteran instructors about this.

>>I agree 100%, you make an important clarification. Diving in New England is almost nothing like diving in the Caribbean for example.

2. Forgive my criticism, but there is a way to respectfully suggest that someone may be out of line. UP has been a moderator on this board since I joined and while he may be sarcastic at times, he is fair on the whole.
His comments where actually more fair in this case (IMO) than the people who brought that dreaded acronym that seems to equal "flame war" into this whole conversation. The moderators here are volunteers. I would expect us (the average poster) to keep the sarcastic side comments directed to them in open forums at a minimum. As if you read UP's statement, he did say with "no other information provided". I can't imagine him or any other experienced diver diving with someone and having no other info other than certs. So that is a moot point.

>>I appreciate the volunteer moderators. Indeed, thank you (moderators) for taking the time to make the Scuba Board what it is. There are too many forums that are without order. This was my first criticism directed at a moderator. This was the first time a moderator had directed a criticism at me by marginalizing my MSD certification. To say the mention of 'MSD on our boat would get laughs' is just plain stupid in my opinion and does not take into account the additional factors needed to asses diver skill.

3. Having said all of this, I agree with you about dive buddies. I like to know my buddies personality as much as his certs. The prospect of diving with a risk taker doesn't appeal to me. Just like submarines, I would prefer for my number of successful ascents to be equal to my number of descents .

>>I hear you, I have had all kinds as I'm sure you have. Dive standards and practices among individuals are as varied as the number of certs and certifying agencies.

Comments above with >>>....

 

[Uncle Pug]

Before you "laugh" at someone with the mere mention of the MSD certification

At least that is what MSD means to most boaters and the U.S. Coast Guard.

So if you stepped onto my dive boat and said, "Hi fellas, I'm an MSD" you would definitely get a laugh.

 

[Uncle Pug]

Who would you select and why would that be?

If the dive were vanilla I would select the MSD (PADI definition) because I like to help folks discover DIR in a real life setting... rather than just over the internet.

 

[matt_unique]

My start to staged decompression diving required an Advanced card, x number of dives, a good attitude, and for me to be eighteen or greater. I don't even think that IANTD issues a Master Diver card (I never checked, nor do I care to). My start to that world in any case was actually my AOW and sufficient confidence over enough dives that I could do it safely. I wound up going that route to improve my skills and found that I actually enjoyed Accelerated Decompression type of diving in spite of the heavy doubles and lugging a stage bottle.

>>>Interesting, I never researched the IANTD courses. The TDI Deco Procedures course placed a heavy emphasis on instructor discretion more so than other measures. You of course had to be 18, x number of dives, etc. There were students in my class that were not allowed to complete the course in fact. The instructor required them to work out skill shortages before they could continue. My TDI instructor had over 3000 dives, every instructor certification for PADI (Course Director) and TDI that I know of, has many dives in the 200-300' range, etc. I don't recall his complete resume but I was very impressed and very humbled. I learned a lot from this course.

--Matt

 

[matt_unique]

At least that is what MSD means to most boaters and the U.S. Coast Guard.

So if you stepped onto my dive boat and said, "Hi fellas, I'm an MSD" you would definitely get a laugh.

>>I appreciate your sense of humor. You are sure speaking for a lot of people based on your comment above. The mention of MSD would not get the same response in New England based on my experience.

 

[MikeS]

Well, they might be the best diver alive, but they still used poor judgement in buying that useless card. That is funny. I'll laugh at that.

I don’t think that the card is useless. It demonstrates that you’ve set a goal to obtain additional skills and experience and achieved it, in much the same way that a college degree does. You’ve achieved those goals while following someone else’s rules to complete a set of requirements.

As far as I’m concerned once you’re in the water, all your certifications and cards go out the window anyway. I’m going to judge you on your buoyancy control and buddy skills, as I expect you will me. But before you get in the water with a prospective buddy or student you have to make some subjective guesses as to their skills. Until they prove otherwise in the water I’m going to watch an OW certified diver closer than a Master Diver.

As to the $29, I wouldn’t pay it, that’s a day of diving in the quarry; but I think that it’s wrong to ridicule someone that’s chosen that path. I think it’s more appropriate to congratulate them on their accomplishment.

Mike

 

[Walter]

"A diver with a thousand dives done in poor trim in Caribbean water may not be as good a diver as someone with two hundred dives who has been diving in harsher climates and maintaining good trim and buoyancy."

OTOH, A diver with a thousand dives done in poor trim in cold water may not be as good a diver as someone with two hundred dives who has been diving in a warm ocean with strong currents, rough seas and maintaining good trim and buoyancy.

 

[Walter]

"I think it’s more appropriate to congratulate them on their accomplishment."

There's an accomplishment to paying an extra $29?

 

[Diver0001]

For those bashing PADI and the Master Diver certification - you need to do some homework, and some sensible thinking.....

<snip>
--Matt

A very curious thread.

While perhaps meaningless in the sense that it's not really the result of a course, the MSD card does create a secure point in time when you can say you have acheived some kind of milestone. I guess it can be psychologically important to some people to pin this point in time. I have seen the odd diver (I'm thinking in particular of a close friend of mine) get a self-confidence boost from getting the MSD card. It wouldn't work for me but not everyone ticks the same way.

I figure if people want to buy this card and it works positively for them then what's the problem.

R..

 

[Arnaud]

A very curious thread.

While perhaps meaningless in the sense that it's not really the result of a course, the MSD card does create a secure point in time when you can say you have acheived some kind of milestone. I guess it can be psychologically important to some people to pin this point in time. I have seen the odd diver (I'm thinking in particular of a close friend of mine) get a self-confidence boost from getting the MSD card. It wouldn't work for me but not everyone ticks the same way.

I figure if people want to buy this card and it works positively for them then what's the problem.

R..

If someone needs an extra card to feel more comfortable in the water, what they may really need is some extra training time in the water...