There are some misinformed people, including instructors, bashing PADI and the MSD

[matt_unique]

I disagree, based on my experience, being an Instructor, working in a dive shop, and diving in NE for the last ten years...

When someone tells me that they are an MSD, I have to bite my lip to prevent myself from laughing in their face... Most of the time, these people have an attitude to go along with the MSD card. They think they are the best diver in the world, however they might have less than 100 dives.
I think its a card that the only people that think it means anything are the dive shop owners, and the people that actually paid the money to get it.

I think it's safe to say you would not be a very good advocate for PADI.

Seriously.....your dive skills would need to be EXTRAORDINARY to be on par with your attitude. I have been diving in NE since 96 so that's 8 years experience I have in shaping my perspective. I assume this also means you tend to laugh in the face of any PADI core certifications including OW, AOW, or Rescue since they are all requisites of MSD? On second thought - you could not possiblly have enough experience to be on par with your attitude.

--Matt

 

[perpet1]

We're not on the same page.

I agree with you that you don't want to give people a false sense of security but that's not what I'm on about.

I'm on about people who have it down but aren't sure of themselves yet. I don't know what you would call that kind of personality but self-confidence is not a natural result of gaining skill. Some people will continue to doubt even after they know it. Why do you think inspirational speaches often result in performance improvements? Self confidence is between your ears and believe it or not some people need to pin milestones to play the self confidence game with themselves. Surely you must know people like that. This is all I mean.

R..

I agree with you that there are people that feel that the card makes them a better diver but are those the people you really want to be diving with? I have to admit I have the big dog Instructor card but I refuse to let that define who I am or how I dive. I learn on every dive as should everyone else. I think you are making the point that there are those that, just because they have a card, think they are better divers. These are the people that 1) are fun to deal with because they are easy to get money out of and 2) nevery really dive for the fun of diving. Card collecting has become the hobby (good for the dive agencies) and diving is just a means of fulfilling the hobby.

If card collecting is a persons hobby (there is nothing wrong with it afterall I have seen worse collections) then that is cool. This program is perfect for you.

A lot of people get the false sense of security around a plastic card and that is what we should ultimatly be discussing.

 

[matt_unique]

I think ultimately any certification level, with any agency, with any number of dives, represents a mid-point on the infinite spectrum of dive knowledge. Those that become complacent at any level are more likely to be reminded they cannot breath underwater naturally

--Matt

 

[cornfed]

However PADI's Master Diver course leaves a lot to be desired, when compared to either NAUI or SSI.

SSI's master diver is just five specialties (one must be Stress&Rescue) and 50 dives. What's the difference?

 

[simbrooks]

pre-req's for NAUI MSD are???

 

[cornfed]

pre-req's for NAUI MSD are???

located on their website...

 

[matt_unique]

Being a full time PADI Instructor who processes MSD applications for our shop, I'm quite familiar with the requirements as they have changed. The most recent version of the MSD application is PRODUCT NO. 10142 V 2.0 (12/01).

In no way does that version of the application state that non-diving specialities do not count. It does reflect other changes implemented in the standards revision such as the requirement for 50 logged dives and the acceptance of qualifying certifications from other agencies to meet requirements for completion of AOW and Rescue Diver.

That application was revised as the standards have been updated. Sounds like your instructor was not up on the standards changes as released in the 1st Quarter 2002 Training Bulletin.

I verified with my MSDT, you are correct, I was provided with an older version of the MSD application that did not allow non-diving certs to count toward MSD. He also said he called PADI to verify and was told the version he had, the older version, was still applicable in terms of the non-diving restriction. Strange....

In either case, my error.

--Matt

 

[Uncle Pug]

Matt... when you consider that PADI has "lowered" their standards for the purchase of a MSD card how does that make you feel about the value of the card you purchased?

FTR I am not talking about the training you received... just the additional card.

 

[Arnaud]

We're not on the same page.

I agree with you that you don't want to give people a false sense of security but that's not what I'm on about.

I'm on about people who have it down but aren't sure of themselves yet. I don't know what you would call that kind of personality but self-confidence is not a natural result of gaining skill. Some people will continue to doubt even after they know it. Why do you think inspirational speaches often result in performance improvements? Self confidence is between your ears and believe it or not some people need to pin milestones to play the self confidence game with themselves. Surely you must know people like that. This is all I mean.

R..

...even though, IMHO, a good instructor/mentor should do far better at helping build someone's confidence than a card received in the mail...

 

[matt_unique]

Matt... when you consider that PADI has "lowered" their standards for the purchase of a MSD card how does that make you feel about the value of the card you purchased?

FTR I am not talking about the training you received... just the additional card.

I mentioned earlier I'm an advocate for making the standards more stringent. A lowering of standards will tend to devalue the certification. That is definitely disappointing.

--Matt