There are some misinformed people, including instructors, bashing PADI and the MSD

[Uncle Pug]

That is definitely disappointing.

I supposed I might feel a twinge of disappointment if the bar were lowered on any of the certifications that I have.

However... the value of the certification is one thing and the value of the training is another.

For some folks the certification is what counts. When a certification is depreciated either because the agency lowered its standards or the rest of the community holds the certification in low esteem it seems as though value is lost.

Other folks value the training, irrespective of any certification that comes subsequent to it. You have the training... nothing can diminish that... and in reality no certification could enhance it either. You have what you earned in the way of understanding and skill.

So my take on this is that nothing more than $29 was lost. That itself can be counted as tuition to learn the value of certifications.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Hey boys and girls,

I have a MSD card. Boy was I hapy when I qualified for it. Well, I was taking classes and trying to learn everything. Of course all I knew was what the shop told me and what was in the PADI texts and this is"the highest non pro "certification"

I would find out later that my education was in its infancy and I had plenty more to learn.

I went on to DM, instructor, tech and cave training. Now I have lots of cards and I am probably learning more at a faster rate now than I was back when I got thet MSD card.

If only they told you what was really out there. You really have to work pretty hard just to find out what your options are and where the mark should be and that's a shame.

If...I could do it over I could get way better way faster for way less money and effort (because I still had to teach myself so much of the important stuff).

You know what they say? If I only knew then what I know now...

 

[GDI]

The PADI cavern course does not have a text or test and nether does the ice diving specialty last time I looked.

That is correct there is no preset text or test for these courses Under PADI. I just used these as an example toward the MSD cert qualification to which most certainly they would apply asa three of the five required.

 

[Diver0001]

I<snip> I think you are making the point that there are those that, just because they have a card, think they are better divers.

Not entirely. I'm sure that some people are like this too but what I'm trying to relate is that some people look for "outside" confirmation that they know their stuff. There's a difference in nuance to me. It's not that the card makes them think they are *better* divers per se but somehow it becomes possible for them to accept or believe that they really have reached some kind of milestone. I had someone tell me once that when they got their MSD they would finally feel like a *real* diver. Just meeting the criteria wasn't enough for him to really accept it. He wanted to have that moment in time pinned, like saying "on this date I became a real diver". And he wanted to show people....he was proud of it. I'm not sure how to explain it better than this and I'm not sure why some people tick like that either (I most certainly don't) but it's something I've noticed.

As for whether or not I want to dive with them that's a different matter. I'll dive with most people but I'll adjust the plan to suit the people I"m diving with. Some people don't get past puddlestomping in 30 ft of water but I don't have a problem with that. I like puddlestomping in 30ft of water just as much as diving on mirky wrecks in 120ft and I'm happy to go puddlestomping with just about anyone.

R..

 

[DFC5343]

Think of it this way. Whatever YOU do to make you a better diver is all good. But if you flash it like a "I'm better cause look"...well then it is worthless. GUE,DIR,DIY...acronyms. They don't mean jack to me. NAUI,PADI...all the same and get air. They mean only what you get out of it all. Prove it in the water...and I'll maybe dive with ya.

 

[Butch103]

PADI is the biggest and an easy target for criticism - this has been well covered elsewhere.

As for the merits of the MSD course... I'm sure there are graduates of that certification path who are excellent divers, and others who are are somewhat less proficient. A great deal depends on which specialties are pursued. Someone who does deep, nitrox, night, ice and rebreather would be considerably different from someone who chooses boat, DPV, drift, naturalist and an esoteric distinctive specialty (the point-and-shoot camera photography specialty comes to mind).

From what I hear around here the criticism of the MSD program is that the value is in the 5 specialties and the 50 dives, not in the MSD card itself. This program was greatly increased in value with the addition of the 50 dives, in my humble opinion. I am a PADI instructor and have to deal with criticisms of this program on a regular basis. I believe the MSD program is meant to motivate relatively new divers to continue diving and learning... and if it accomplishes even one of those it has been successful.

If it promotes further education it is good.

People remember this ..PADI is not a non-profit organization. It trys to make money. It will take many different roads to achieve this profit. Get over it and move along.......If you don't agree with their system don't enter it or get out and cross-over to any of the other dive organizations.

 

[Diver0001]

...even though, IMHO, a good instructor/mentor should do far better at helping build someone's confidence than a card received in the mail...

Absolutely. And in fact there's a point to be made about the "confidence in a cracker-jack box" side of this too. Perpet1 touched on it and so did you. It's really difficult to distinguish the people engaged in 'card collecting' as a hobby and the people feeling that the card makes them 'better divers' from the people who really benefit psychologically from pinning the milestone. In fact the ones get get a "false" sense of security from such a card may actually outnumber the ones who get a "justified" sense of security from it. I don't know but surely it would be better to address the group needing mentoring with ... uh ... actually mentoring them!

R..

 

[cornfed]

The PADI cavern course does not have a text or test and nether does the ice diving specialty last time I looked.

Teach the class don't you need to be an NSS-CDS or NACD cavern instructor as well as a PADI instructor? I was under the impression they got cavern instructors to teach the class according to the NSS-CDS/NACD standards, then issued a PADI card for it.

 

[DFC5343]

Can you do this?

 

[Dwain]

Think of it this way. Whatever YOU do to make you a better diver is all good. But if you flash it like a "I'm better cause look"...well then it is worthless. GUE,DIR,DIY...acronyms. They don't mean jack to me. NAUI,PADI...all the same and get air. They mean only what you get out of it all. Prove it in the water...and I'll maybe dive with ya.

I've read several post's from this guy. He sometimes swerves into a good point. But what I mostly sense is that he pulled up to the "ME" pump and said "FILL'ER UP".