The value of PADI

[Thrillhouse]

I've been diving for about 2 and a half years now, with 32 dives under my belt. I really enjoy the sport and belong to an awesome club through my uni which has exposed me to a number of skilled, safe, and passionate scuba divers who've been fundamental to my learning how to dive. I've taken the PADI system to get where I am today, and am currently Advanced Open Water certified... Very glad about that, but at the same time I only really felt "advanced" after my 30th dive or so, and am only now comfortable going down to around 100ft in cold water, feeling in control of the situation and completely relaxed.

The last dive I went on was with my club, and with another diver who's also AOW. She told me she'd done about 20 dives and was totally fine with going down past 90ft plus, but seemed a bit amateur on the surface, forgetting to de-fog her mask, unsure of how to manage a buddy check, and struggling to get her fins on. Once beneath the surface she had a number of bouyancy issues, rarely looked back while leading, and had her secondary and guages dangling along during both of our dives. We agreed to turn back at half a tank and surface at 1/3; when we turned back (having risen to 30ft), she began to tear along as fast as she could, explaining later that she didn't like surface swims and would rather get in quicker... Naturally, this raised an eyebrow.

After, she told me she's taking the rescue diver course sometime this spring, which sounded fairly alarming. I felt unsafe and buddiless with her on a recreational shore dive in crystal conditions, and the thought of her as a "rescue diver" seems quite absurd. I'm sure she can pass the course just like she somehow did for AOW, but what does that really mean? She's clearly not an "advanced" open water diver at all, but a piece of plastic says she is, meaning people like myself happily buddy with her thinking they're with a safe and competent partner. I don't mean to come down hard on her as she was a nice person to be out with, but her skills as a diver were terribly lacking.

So, what are people's thoughts on matters like this? I've heard of people getting AOW certified immediately after getting their OW at resorts, making them even less experienced than this person but still somehow "certified" to engage in complex and potentially dangerous dives. There seem to be some major flaws in this regulating process.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

What do you want us to say?
It's the instructor not the agency?
It's the agency guidlines and not the instructors fault?

Fagedaboudit!

I would find new buddies that are better than you and dive with them. Watch what they do and learn from them. Let her dive in the class environment with her beloved instructor that gave her the c-card.

 

[fisheater]

It's only certification that the person went through "advanced open water" training, meaning that the training is a bit more advanced than the initial open water training.

It's not that the person is an "advanced diver." That only comes from experience and conscientious study.

 

[Peter Guy]

Thrillhouse:

a. The "AOW" cert does NOT mean one is an "advanced" diver -- it merely means one has had 5 more "experience dives" under the direction of an instructor -- nothing more, perhaps less.

b. When one is "leading" a dive, unless you are single file, the leader should NOT have to "look back" to see where the buddy is (buddies are) -- they should be visible with a slight turn of the head, or better yet, their lights should be visible by the leader at all (or virtually all) times. (This latter statement is assuming that the ambient light is not so bright as to make light ID useless.)

c. Part of every dive, and what often should be a significant part, is the "debrief" at the end of the dive. Did you do one with her? If so, did you raise these points and describe what you thought could have been done better? If you did not do so, "shame" on you -- it was a teaching moment that was missed.

d. Under the PADI system, one can not really be considered having had the training to be an independent diver until one has passed the Rescue class (if then but that is another story). I'd congratulate her on deciding to take Rescue because she should learn a lot more about how to be a safe diver -- and perhaps also how to be a better buddy.

 

[Sirena_Elena]

I agree with your claim. You're right, there is flaws. Problem is diving is a business and not a community service (as so decided decades ago). Tragically, open water courses have become shorter and shorter. Students are judged on competence, but in reality nothing serves better than experience and total immersion. For me AOW is Open Water Part 2. So, I dont think there's anything wrong with an AOW course following directly after an OW course. What knowledge she failed to absorb was (which the class does teach) that she needs to constantly be judging her own skill level. Am I ready for this dive, have I been here before, do I need a professional guide? Just taking the AOW course doesn't mean they're ready to go out and dive the Andrea Doria. Write PADI with your experiences as they are constantly evolving courses and standards to fit our needs.

Happy diving! Hope youre a better diving for a less than pleasant experience..

and rescue is just taking that a step further to look at the big picture. all this education without experience is almost worthless though.

 

[Sirena_Elena]

Peter:

A buddy or a dive guide should always look to their buddy constantly. What if the buddy stopped for a problem...OR.....what if they stopped because of something the other buddy missed like a big shark or manta....OR something small like a seahorse. I look to my buddies every 5 or 10 seconds not only because I want to make sure they'll still okay but more selfishly I don't want to miss anything that they see. How horrible to get back on the boat and your buddy say did you see that eagle ray and not be able to share in the excitement.

As for debriefing, this could be done casually like hey how was your dive I see you do 'this' maybe try 'this instead' next time it always works for me. But, Thrillhouse is an advanced diver not a dm or instructor so I don't think it's shame on her for anything as she has no teaching responsibility. If anything congrats for handling a bad buddy.

Thrillhouse:

a. The "AOW" cert does NOT mean one is an "advanced" diver -- it merely means one has had 5 more "experience dives" under the direction of an instructor -- nothing more, perhaps less.

b. When one is "leading" a dive, unless you are single file, the leader should NOT have to "look back" to see where the buddy is (buddies are) -- they should be visible with a slight turn of the head, or better yet, their lights should be visible by the leader at all (or virtually all) times. (This latter statement is assuming that the ambient light is not so bright as to make light ID useless.)

c. Part of every dive, and what often should be a significant part, is the "debrief" at the end of the dive. Did you do one with her? If so, did you raise these points and describe what you thought could have been done better? If you did not do so, "shame" on you -- it was a teaching moment that was missed.

d. Under the PADI system, one can not really be considered having had the training to be an independent diver until one has passed the Rescue class (if then but that is another story). I'd congratulate her on deciding to take Rescue because she should learn a lot more about how to be a safe diver -- and perhaps also how to be a better buddy.

 

[NudeDiver]

OP:

You place way too much faith in training.

A plastic card merely means one has paid the money, taken the class, and passed the class. That's it. Much like a university degree, it is not a guarantee that the person whose name appears on that document knows ANYTHING.

Don't be hung up on the term "advanced". Please. Just pretend it says "Open Water II" and proceed on that basis.

Taking and passing a rescue diver course will not hurt anything - even if the person who takes it is absolutely clueless. It is unlikely that person will end the class knowing LESS than he/she did when starting the class.

Concentrate on your own skills, training and abilities - that's about all you can do to make your diving a more rewarding experience.

Good luck!
nd

 

[vulcan]

The thing about padi i that you can do OW and AOW together with no extra dive between the too.
I whose a NAUI AOW ( have the same program as PADI) and now I'm a SSI dive con and the way that their program works is to advance in levels you need to have the number of dives thy request and some time specialty course's.
In my opinion i think that the ssi program is good because you cant advance with out experience.
And it is important to have a instructor that will fail students if they don't meet requirement's.

 

[NudeDiver]

And it is important to have a instructor that will fail students if they don't meet requirement's.

Too bad English instructors don't follow this advice.

 

[Brewski]

Too bad English instructors don't follow this advice.