The Truth about Michigan State Park/diving Legislation

[Greg_MacMaster]

Greg: Next time you're representing us at a meeting in Lansing, I want you to bring something up. Went to Mackinac this weekend. Our local dive boat left from Mackinac City PUBLIC Marina. While getting my parking pass, I was told that "you people", meaning divers, have to park in the dirt lot next door because there are just too many of "you people". We were told not to use the loading and unloading spots because "you people" are taking up too much room. AND we were told that we needed to move our boats, because "we were getting in the way of the yatch owners and fishermen in the marina". We were supposed to figure our how to load our boats without taking up dock area. (Maybe don our scuba gear and swim to the boat???) There were 40-50 of us divers throughout two days. That's hotel rooms and eating. It's the last time our group goes to Mackinac. St. Ignace gets our business from now on. (Should have known to stay on this side anyway). That's just part of it, if you want to see the whole story go to the thread "New term for divers".

You talk about how divers have no concern for anyone or anything but themselves. Maybe we're just different up here. I'd like to give a BIG thanks to the Rec Diver for letting us tie up behind them and throwing out a bouy line for us to use against the current. You made what started out to be a bad experience, a pretty damn good day. Thanks guys!!!! Maybe you should represent us in Lansing!!!

Okay, now I have more time to return a comment...

I can bring up anything, but the lack of education and impact divers have on a city/village needs to be addressed at that level if you want immediate results. I would bring up this issue up with the local harbor Master first. Then go to the County clerk? Write to State Rep Gary Mcdowell to let him know and cc: the harbor master and county clerk....Last resort.... write a letter to Sen. Jason Allen. An editorial comment in the paper usually has a pretty good impact.

I feel bad for any area that has little or no respect for divers. We have a similiar situation down here. One diver (from out of state) decides to dive teh docks with a flag and taffic comes to a standstill and teh harbormaster goes ballistic. That reflects bad on all fo us. So I do feel your pain. If you encounter what you experienced again, I would probably correct it on the spot.

Check your PM's

 

[ComputerJoe]

Seems to me this legislation Puts a lot of "Public" organizations on the board.

House Bill 4638

(F) SIX INDIVIDUALS APPOINTED BY THE GOVERNOR WITH THE ADVICE AND CONSENT OF THE SENATE FROM THE GENERAL PUBLIC TO REPRESENT EACH OF THE FOLLOWING:
(i) MARINE SALVAGE AND CONSTRUCTION COMPANIES.
(ii) RETAIL DIVE SHOPS.
(iii) DIVE CHARTER BOAT OPERATORS.
(iv) MARITIME MUSEUM ORGANIZATIONS.
(v) ACADEMIC RESEARCHERS.
(vi) STATEWIDE ORGANIZATIONS WITH AN INTEREST IN GREAT LAKES BOTTOMLANDS PRESERVES.

Isn't this supposed to be a goverment "of the people, for the people"? Delegating every non govermental seat on this committee to a Governer appointed position only allows the committee to be "stacked" by an individual with political pull. You sure had a lot of pull to get this series of bills introduce in the middle of our last budget panic. There are no other organizations closer to, and that have donated as much to make shipwrecks accessible to the general diving public than the MUPC and as it's members. And the MUPC elects it's officers not based on political adgendas but on how well they will represent the Underwater Preserves and the shipwrecks therein contained.

 

[ComputerJoe]

I understand, from several people, that Senator McManus's (you senator and major player in introducing these bills) Aid rejected discussions with MUPC members. Aparently we blew our chance by using our 1st admendment right of freedom of speech. Now the MUPC has two choices, either try to fix these bills with someone who does not want to talk to us, or oppose them and maybe start again with a clean slate after the next elections. I would vote for the second option.

 

[dab]

I'd like to give a BIG thanks to the Rec Diver for letting us tie up behind them and throwing out a bouy line for us to use against the current. You made what started out to be a bad experience, a pretty damn good day.

The Rec Diver is first class. Larry is a fine gentlemen and there is no better boat to dive from.

 

[krjohnson]

a few on the current MUPC board wouldn't pass the state mandated background check!

Well it seems to be official, we must be part of the political process because the mud slinging has started. With this one statement all creditability has been lost in my mind

 

[Greg_MacMaster]

I understand, from several people, that Senator McManus's (you senator and major player in introducing these bills) Aid rejected discussions with MUPC members. Aparently we blew our chance by using our 1st admendment right of freedom of speech. Now the MUPC has two choices, either try to fix these bills with someone who does not want to talk to us, or oppose them and maybe start again with a clean slate after the next elections. I would vote for the second option.

First amendment of speech aside... I believe it was the entry of "run around" of why the MUPC didn't support it... "Because we weren't consulted" was teh end discussion. Also in testimony, if someone is laying the groundwork describing how bad diving is, how cold it is, how scary it is... Then promote it in magazines and documentaries..? It didn't make any sense.

How can you deal with someone that doesn't make sense? Is there room for negotiations? Sure! But taking off on bulletin boards such as this and flaming the very group you want to work with isn't the way to do it.

 

[Greg_MacMaster]

The Rec Diver is first class. Larry is a fine gentlemen and there is no better boat to dive from.

I would agree... Rec Diver is an excellent ambasador to the scuba diving community.

I have only known Larry in a meeting environment and not on a boat or open water.

 

[Greg_MacMaster]

Well it seems to be official, we must be part of the political process because the mud slinging has started. With this one statement all creditability has been lost in my mind

Credibility with who?
That statement was to justify the MUPC's willingness to become a perminant seat on the committee. They will have to adjust a few folks if they want to go that route.

 

[Greg_MacMaster]

Seems to me this legislation Puts a lot of "Public" organizations on the board.

House Bill 4638

(F) SIX INDIVIDUALS APPOINTED BY THE GOVERNOR WITH THE ADVICE AND CONSENT OF THE SENATE FROM THE GENERAL PUBLIC TO REPRESENT EACH OF THE FOLLOWING:
(i) MARINE SALVAGE AND CONSTRUCTION COMPANIES.
(ii) RETAIL DIVE SHOPS.
(iii) DIVE CHARTER BOAT OPERATORS.
(iv) MARITIME MUSEUM ORGANIZATIONS.
(v) ACADEMIC RESEARCHERS.
(vi) STATEWIDE ORGANIZATIONS WITH AN INTEREST IN GREAT LAKES BOTTOMLANDS PRESERVES.

Isn't this supposed to be a goverment "of the people, for the people"? Delegating every non govermental seat on this committee to a Governer appointed position only allows the committee to be "stacked" by an individual with political pull. You sure had a lot of pull to get this series of bills introduce in the middle of our last budget panic. There are no other organizations closer to, and that have donated as much to make shipwrecks accessible to the general diving public than the MUPC and as it's members. And the MUPC elects it's officers not based on political adgendas but on how well they will represent the Underwater Preserves and the shipwrecks therein contained.

Then have someone from the MUPC take the position that is proposed "STATEWIDE ORGANIZATIONS WITH AN INTEREST IN GREAT LAKES BOTTOMLANDS PRESERVES."

I would think all the other public organizations would get together by phone or otherwise and ask who would like to serve that group. It's facilitative in nature. Not demading like what the MUPC wants.... Nothing is stacked and if you think it is, then ask the MUPC to put in a request for a Senator to nominate you (or someone else). Frankly I think a trade organization is the way to go which will culminate all those organizations and appoint a lobbyist... Scuba inductry alone doesn't carry the weight to have that - but absorbe the other organizations and you could become pretty poowerful in Lansing.

Your comment "You sure had a lot of pull to get this series of bills introduce in the middle of our last budget panic." Isn't accurate at all. I didn't introduce these series, just gave a few ideas on how to improve an improverished system of complaints where the satte doesn't fund anything for teh bottomlands in general. Like everything on this board...it snowballs. Some saw good, others assumed bad. Keep in mind that no one I met trusts government. But we can affect change, and to stop something because you weren't consulted is one thing (Okay, sorry everyone didn't get the word). But for gosh sake.... look at the potential benefits.

I'm not here to sway you - only to correct comments that have gone on mis-guided and set the record straight.

 

[JEScholz]

Yea... Unfortunately... It'll probably be more. But isn't it better to have something to work with rather than nothing, which is what we have now. Would you drop .45 cents to pick up a dollar?

OK, so if I am interpreting your comment correctly, 45 cents out of every dollar would be for administrative costs. That means $8.25 of my $15 "donation" would go to actually promoting or improving diving. That is NOT going to get my vote!

As a diver, why should I pay for promoting diving in Michigan? Wouldn't that be more beneficial to dive shops, charter operations, tourist bureaus, and motel operators?

I would rather donate directly to efforts like supporting the mooring on the Sandusky or the search for wrecks in my area by the MSRA. Let the diver choose how their donations should be spent, and let the dive industry in MI form it's own industry group and pay for promoting it's business. We don't need legislation for that!