The State of Diving

[Diver0001]

How is possible that you can say that this deficiency exists, is so simple to correct yet not call the Instructor lazy? Perhaps Lazy is the wrong term. Perhaps "rushing them out the door so they can get more money through" is a better term. If all it takes is an extra hour or two to correct some fo this, how is this not the Instructor's fault?

I can't answer that question. I obviously don't know under what circumstances their training took place. What I do know is that *if* the instructor wishes to produce students who do not scull with their hands (or very minimally) and show good buddy contact, and reasonably good propulsion that it's easily integrated into the OW course. It's more a matter of approach, or maybe necessity, than motivation.

I am absolutely positive of this because our local conditions require a different diving style than what I'm seeing here and I spend time on these things. In fact, getting results on this front is largely a question of simply making them aware of the issues and having clear achievable expectations.

Does that mean that people who don't do this are lazy? I don't know. That's your interpretation and you're also willing to fill in their motivations for them too. I don't know what motivates anyone other than myself.

R..

 

[ScubaSteve]

It is very often that little bit extra that differentiates between [someone who wants to certify people to scuba dive] from [someone who wants to certify a "Scuba Diver"]. I personally think the underwater world would be a better place for all involved if we turned out more Scuba Divers. And, as you have pointed out, it can be a very short step from A to B. Only an instructor that is looking to certify a "Scuba Diver" is willing to take that extra step.

 

[diverrex]

In 10 trips to the Caribbean over the past four years I have not encountered a group even close to this bad. I've been on dives with divers making their first dive after certification (from the resort dive op) that were not this bad, they were calmer and quieter in the water, better bouyancy and virtually no hand movement. I've dived with a number of once a year vacation divers that demonstrate good skills. So it isn't just a matter of where you get your training or vacation versus local diver. But when I've dived in the Caribbean I have always sought out high quality dive ops generally running a six-pack boat, and generally some dollars more per dive than the mass market cattle boat operator or the "dive tour" operator. Perhaps even the begining diver who seeks out that type of op starts out looking for a better dive experience. Luckily most if not all of the ops I've used would have talked to the divers about dangling consoles, not touching the reef, maintaining buddy teams, etc. While training maybe should be better continued quidance from DM's should occur. I've seen plenty of DM's offer helpful advice after the dive and present it in a friendly, non-critical learning manner. But as long as DMs and ops allow bad diving and even contribute to it by their own actions the experience in the video will continue. Luckily it hasn't been hard for me to find ops offering a different experience.

 

[ONESPEED]

I would quickly kick that dm out of my company. Totally unresponsible. Also, what happened to the "No Touchy" rule we professionals are suposed to model?

Perhaps he thought getting her stung by a venomous fish would ingrain the lesson on her to not fondle marine life.

Seriously though, that was my thought too. Not only is he passing around marine life for amusement, I have to assume he doesn't even know what he's handling.

 

[seaducer]

It is very often that little bit extra that differentiates between [someone who wants to certify people to scuba dive] from [someone who wants to certify a "Scuba Diver"]. I personally think the underwater world would be a better place for all involved if we turned out more Scuba Divers. And, as you have pointed out, it can be a very short step from A to B. Only an instructor that is looking to certify a "Scuba Diver" is willing to take that extra step.

I prefer to look at that little bit extra as differentiating between the instructors and shops who give PADI and other agencies a bad rap, and the instructors and shops that prefer to turn out competent and safe divers from dive 1.

Hand skulling is sloppy, but I do not think it is a tremendously bad thing. But not being able to effectively swim your gear through the water is a safety issue, IMHO.

I do not see the "buddy team" the same way Diver0001 does either. I see this pair as Vertical Woman holding on to Horizontal Boy for dear life (maybe because she knows she can't really move well in that position), while Horizontal Boy is more or less oblivious to her discomfort. That is not good buddy contact IMO, you need to be aware of the other person, not just touching them.

The dangling gear and lack of concern for the coral they were bumping into is another set of problems. I won't get into the ignorance it takes to pick up a scorpion fish, but suffice it to say say it behooves the traveling diver to do at least some rudimentary research on the critters that can hurt them. But that FAIL goes to the DM, whose job is to know better.

What we do not see in the video but *dave* adds with commentary is the OOA/LOA that occurs on these dives as well. That may be poor training and/or just plain stupid divers. You do not need the Best Training Ever to know running out of air at depth is a Bad Thing.

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

Perhaps he thought getting her stung by a venomous fish would ingrain the lesson on her to not fondle marine life.

Seriously though, that was my though too. Not only is he passing around marine life for amusement, I have to assume he doesn't even know what he's handling.

On a completely different note, can you believe that I wrote unresponsible? Holy Crap! Proper language was just too much for me today. sorry...

 

[ONESPEED]

On a completely different note, can you believe that I wrote unresponsible? Holy Crap! Proper language was just too much for me today. sorry...

Heh, I caught that but knew it was an honest mistake with your UGA roots.

 

[Diver0001]

I do not see the "buddy team" the same way Diver0001 does either. I see this pair as Vertical Woman holding on to Horizontal Boy for dear life (maybe because she knows she can't really move well in that position), while Horizontal Boy is more or less oblivious to her discomfort. That is not good buddy contact IMO, you need to be aware of the other person, not just touching them.

That was my first observation of them. I said in my first post "she is focused on him and he is focused on him". It wasn't a typo.

I do agree with you that there is something there (possibly the dominating husband syndrome) but I can't tell from a couple of 5 second snips of watching them dive if your assumptions about her motivations for holding is hand are correct. At most you *could* be correct. As it is, all we can do is assume.

Nevertheless, they stay together and despite some of the other signals they're giving off, they do that (stay together) well. As for awareness. In one of the other segments I saw something that gave me a hint that their buddy contact wasn't entirely passive. Could it be improved? Sure. Is it bad? Compare it to the other divers in that group....They're the only ones who are even remotely acting like buddies. Good for them.

R..

 

[Diver0001]

On a completely different note, can you believe that I wrote unresponsible? Holy Crap! Proper language was just too much for me today. sorry...

Yeah we all saw it and now we're going to think you flap your hands around when you dive too.

God.... if I had to apologize for every typo, grammar and spelling mistake and stupid thing I ever said, I'd need a personal assistant to keep a list! Don't worry about it.

R..

 

[ScubaSteve]

God.... if I had to apologize for every typo, grammar and spelling mistake and stupid thing I ever said, I'd need a personal assistant to keep a list! Don't worry about it.

R..

nespeed: