The State of Diving

[Thalassamania]

That ain't no high horse, that's a broken down pony at best.

 

[ptyx]

The competition between the agencies is not healthy. It has become a race for the bottom a contest of who can market them most minimal program, capable of being "taught" by the least skilled "instructor."

There is competition at the 'bottom', but there is a lot of competition at the 'top' too. I think relatively new agencies like GUE and UTD are a result of that competition, and CMAS affiliates are still relatively healthy - and their cards honored about everywhere.

 

[Thalassamania]

From what I see, there's not much top to have competition at, some higher ed programs, some independent instructors and a few new agencies. I find GUE and UTD, et.al. a welcome breath of fresh air, even if somewhat constrained. I doubt that all of the above add up to 1% of the divers trained.

The fact that a card is "accepted," means very little, I have a cardfile box full of cards, many rather obscure, and I went thorough a stage some years ago trying to see if any would be turned down, none ever were.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

To the OP:
Firstly: video editing is a powerful too, so I am not sure if your "clip" is representative of the diving population. If an infinite number of highly skilled divers were filmed over an infinite number of hours you could still reproduce that video.

Secondly: I hope you have the informed and signed consent of all of the models in that video before you use it commercially as prop to berate them and hold yourself up on a high horse in your classes.

Why is a release needed? I would have one helluva time indentifying anyone in that video. And it is alreay being used commercially by the op that sold it to Dave. Why they would use that as a promo is beyond comprehension. Dave is not going to sell it. He is going to use it in his classes to show how divers are not supposed to look in the same way I show the 5thdx you tube videos to show how they should. I don;t sell it. It is free to anyone who wants to look at it.

Compare one of those with a mask clear video from TAWSNBN and the difference is clear. The divers I have shown both to want to look like the guy in perfect trim not the ones praying on the bottom. And ya know what? Performing a mask clear like that is within the capability of every OW diver before they leave the pool IF they are shown how and given a chance to practice it. In pool session two I start taking students hands and placing them in front of them folded after they get horizontal and neutral. Why? BECAUSE DIVERS DO NOT USE THEIR FREAKIN HANDS FOR CONTROL!

They do not have to. Once you show them they don;t need em they begin to try it for themselves and you can actually see when the light goes on. It is that big smile when they realize they can look like a sleek fighter instead of a clunky old freighter. By session three they will settle for nothing less of themselves. It is truly a joy to watch a new diver relax, breath, get neutral, and remove and replace their mask, recover a reg, or don and doff a weight belt without changing depth by more than two feet. And to see the satisfaction on their face when they do it. It is pure enjoyment.:cool2: As opposed to nervousness, uneasiness, and in some cases downright fear.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

To the OP:
Firstly: video editing is a powerful too, so I am not sure if your "clip" is representative of the diving population. If an infinite number of highly skilled divers were filmed over an infinite number of hours you could still reproduce that video.


Secondly: I hope you have the informed and signed consent of all of the models in that video before you use it commercially as prop to berate them and hold yourself up on a high horse in your classes.

What was shown in that video was representative of what I've seen on a lot of dives. Others here have stated the same. You don't have to look far to see diving like that....any dive site, any time, will do.

If you're on a dive site, you have no expectation of privacy. I don't think you'd have any ground to stand on if you were going to argue on behalf of those shown in the video.
The fish handling segment was a very public display of ignorance and stupidity, they knew they were on a dive site with others and they seemed to be aware of being filmed.

Besides, waving and gesturing to the camera could be considered implied consent.

-Mitch

 

[Thalassamania]

Don't get led astray, there's no issue here, to the best of my knowledge, in this situation, e.g., individuals unidentifiable, no model release is required.

 

[Walter]

If standards are wrong, ok, let's debate that in the (I2I forum) and get some action like petitioning our agencies to put these things explicitly in the standards.

The I2I forum is the absolute worst place for threads of this type. Threads of this type are a service to potential divers, not to instructors.

 

[Diver0001]

What was shown in that video was representative of what I've seen on a lot of dives. Others here have stated the same. You don't have to look far to see diving like that....any dive site, any time, will do.

yeah.... getting back on topic, I'm surprised, actually, at the number of people who said this is typical of their experience. That's shocking and disturbing. You would like to think it was the exception but that's not the impression I'm getting here.

In my experience I don't see this kind of thing very often but I tend to avoid large charter boats.

I distinctly remember seeing it, however, in Cozumel and if I'm not mistaken it might have been at the same location the video was taken. It was quite a while ago but it was also a group of about a dozen divers.

I also saw it on a day-boat in Turkey. In that case it was a dive club of all levels who had gone on vacation together -- I *think* to do some training there. Some of their divers had my attention the way one can't stop looking a car crash on the freeway... but they were very inexperienced and taking training so you could overlook that.

Locally I never see this because of what I said before. You simply couldn't dive in our local waters like that and get away with it. However, it's not altogether surprising that people dive in unorganized groups like this if conditions are such that it doesn't present significant problems.

R..

 

[TSandM]

Dave, I think showing a video like this and carefully identifying the issues is probably a great instructional tool. If you can combine it with video of the students, so you can show them directly what they are doing (removing the, "I was NOT!" factor) I think it will be very constructive.

I think a board like this, and threads like this one, can do a couple of useful things. It can serve to inform divers that it is possible to improve their skills beyond this point and it can cause instructors to reflect on what and how they are teaching.

We do like to get together and bemoan the state of diving on a regular basis. But it's like Bob's gas management seminars, that he (and now others) give over and over again . . . there are always people out there who haven't been reached, and if the presentation can be kept constructive, there are people who WILL be reached.

 

[caseybird]

The guy with the BP/Wings and the bitchin' cool head scarf crashed into the coral, hard. Gear does not make the diver. Otherwise, the video is mortifying.
Diving well feels great. It's graceful, it frees us from gravity and lets us earthbound creatures fly like birds. Why dive like this? Why don't they get it?
Why are they happy to suck at diving?