The pony taboo

[Darnold9999]

Carry mine slung, reg velcroed to the tank, charged, valve off. Deploying is dead simple. Open the valve, grab the reg which is right beside the valve and breathe. Test the reg whenever I attach it to the pony.

 

[scubadiver888]

Ok guys, heres my observations. I've read many many discussions on many boards about pony bottles. I've watched many home videos of diving adventures and have also read all of the DAN annual reports on diving accidents.Why is it that the vast majority of divers ( observation) don't carry pony bottles?

Almost every diving death in the DAN reports could have been avoided if a correctly sized pony were availible when needed! Not the "spare death" (as I see they are called) tanks with the consolidated reg, but a 19, 30 or 40 cu/ft tank. The observed discussions on other boards are that most divers totally rely on a buddy to breathe with. The reports indicate that either the buddy was separated due to currents or viz problems or air sharing at depth resulted in both divers injured when the buddy also ran out. My theory is that if my air is low, so will my buddy! This senerio would be if for some reason I forgot my training and didnt watch my comp or gauges.

Others have remarked on the fact that a pony ( adequately sized) is expensive and cumbersome. ie: in the way. Most videos I have watched show divers diving wrecks like the Speigel Grove with just one tank at 100 ft. At 4 ATA I dont think 10 breaths from a spare air would be any good to me in an emergency. Granted the reports show the deaths of divers from the millions of dives every year making the fatality rate very very low but you know what they say. It only takes one accident to kill you! What really bothers me is that many instructors and veterans have indicated to me that having an adequately sized pony would keep me from being immortalized on the ( Darwin Award Network) annual report. This is, to me, an unprofessional and callus statement and used to really anger me to hear it but I see what they are trying to do. Scare me into being safe. Accidents happen and no one is immune!

My point is that what is the big taboo about carrying a pony? If I died and had a greater power offering me my life back for 400 dollars, I would take it! So I'll save time and just spend the money now! From what I have read so far on this forom, you guys are the most professional and intellegent group I've seen. So an opinion as to pro's and cons would really help me to understand this controversy. So I'll start with my opinion. Ponies should be standard on all solo dives and any buddy dive beyond 50 ft. My life is valuable to me and I would love to see DAN publish and empty report every year! Any takers?

Oh, my history is that I am a rookie with 15 lifetime dives in 6 months and doing my advanced class on the 19th of May. My wife and I dive in every weekend with 6 grand worth of equipment straped on. Being an auto mechanic in a bad economy and having 7 kids, the expense of the equipment just about killed me but my equipment won't kill me and I'll be here for Xmas! So take it easy on the rookie as I consider posting on this forum my means to educate myself.

Brodie,

Approximately 50 messages in one day. You have obviously hit a hot topic.

I read the dive accident stories and check out reports from DAN. My impression is that dive accidents come from lack of preparation. If you don't practice your training and dive in beautiful, pristine environments you will probably panic when something goes wrong. I remember the dive accidents where they find the guy with air or the accidents where they find the guy on the bottom of the ocean still wearing his weight belt.

Maybe someone died because they ran out of air but if they are still wearing their weight belt I would consider that more significant. If I ran out of air, and my buddy was not near by, I'd think heading for the surface is a wise choice. If I'm going for the surface I'd lose the weight belt.

Having a pony bottle just means more equipment. You have to maintain it, carry it, train to use it, etc. If you cannot remember to drop your weights what makes you think you're going to remember to properly use the pony bottle?

You seem pretty conscientious. I would suspect by the time you get a few dozen dives under your belt you will have worked at using the basic skills you learned in your certification classes. Hopefully, you will have practiced them in a confined water with proper supervision (a buddy or possibly a dive instructor). This means the out of air scenario will be less likely.

I only have 3 dozen dives and I just know when I'm at half tank. I'll look at my gauge occasionally and each time I do it is where I expect it to be or a little more. I guess I don't even realize it but every time I see something really cool the first thing I do when the event is over is check my gauge.

Bottom line, I remember thinking a pony bottle or even SpareAir would be a good idea but now it would just be another thing I have to maintain and carry. I can plan my dive so a pony bottle is not necessary.

I'm sure at some point, when everything I do now becomes second nature, I'll push myself further. At that time I might end up in situations where a pony bottle is a wise idea. Having a pony bottle as a 'just in case' option doesn't work for me. Make sure you don't need a 'just in case' option. Having a pony bottle because my plan REQUIRES it is a good option.

Just my opinion.

 

[RonFrank]

Ron, a question for you.

In your experience and travels, do you find that a large proportion of pony bottle divers tend to place the reg around their neck as dumpsterdiver is alluding to? In my admittedly limited expereince with pony bottle divers, this seems to be the exception rather than the norm. The ones that I have spoken to do not do this and in fact, many do not leave the tank on during the dive.even

How do you use yours?

-P

I don't see a lot of pony divers, but have run into several, and have several friends who dive them as well. We decided to pony up after diving Coz in Jan of 2007 when we realized how difficult (impossible?) it would be to get to your buddy on a couple of the ripping current drifts we did.

How folks rig it depends a lot on the size, and if they are doing other activities. For example, the reason I have mine attached to the tank is because I often dive with a camera, and find this easier than slinging it when carrying the camera. I used a bunged second. I also have a zeagle Octo+ on my travel BC, so I have three seconds, and two firsts when I travel.

When I dive dry locally, if I use the pony my second is on the pony, so if I have to donate, I donate my primary (I use a long hose), and basically the dive is over unless we are diving very shallow which is often the case in lakes. I have an SPG attached to the first stage of my pony. I've never had to donate air other than during drills.

My buddy Dimitri slings his pony, but also bought it for travel. He purchased the smaller sized 13CF, but as long as one makes sure it's full, it's still a good backup. His reg has a very short hose, so one donates the entire bottle.

Another SB buddy of mine I met in Coz also carries a 19CF, and slings his. One advantage of slinging the pony is one can hand it off.

We all bungee our seconds, however in the case of my buddies, their second is bunged to the bottle, and they would donate the pony. However the primary reason we all carry a pony is not to donate, but to have a backup air supply.

I dive with my pony hot, or on. I think both my buddies do as well, but if one slings the setup, one can dive with the air off. I don't agree with doing so, but there is an argument for keeping the air off, and that is if the tank develops a leak, the pony will empty quickly.

Honestly, I try and keep my buddies close and use that system, but when on vacation, or if I decide to dive a shallow reef solo, the backup IMO is necessary dive equipment.

 

[RonFrank]

I can plan my dive so a pony bottle is not necessary.

Having a pony bottle as a 'just in case' option doesn't work for me. Make sure you don't need a 'just in case' option. Having a pony bottle because my plan REQUIRES it is a good option.

How does one PLAN a pony into a dive profile? No one PLANS to have a first stage malfunction. If you are planning a pony into the mix, you need to work on planning, because that is not what they are for.

Pony's are emergency air and redundancy... period. If you want more air, than dive doubles, buy a larger tank, or breath less!

I carry my pony for redundancy. If you have a good dive buddy, than a pony is unnecessary assuming you are in conditions where separation is next to impossible.

I don't generally dive mine when diving locally. When traveling I use a pony. I guess I'll find out how this all works out when we go to FL in July as I can NOT likely travel with one bag unless I go over the limits.. a lot! :11:

 

[String]

With a reliable buddy

This alone is the most persuasive argument for carrying adequate redundant bail out for the dive (be that a pony, twinset and so on).

Every dive buddy you have will be a human being. Human beings are not robots - they are not 100% guaranteed to always react in the same predictable way in any situation. No matter who they are they can make mistakes. Blindly trusting your life to another human being when better options are available are foolhardy.

 

[Bottomfeeder Brodie]

Finally, $6k on gear? All at once, with 15 dives? Yikes.

It boils down to my mask theory. I moved to Florida and loved the water so I bought a cheap mask for 15 bucks. Times two ( wife). Lasted a week. Bought two more for 25.00 each. Lasted a month. By the time I decides to just cough up the money on a mechanics salary, I had spent 100.00 on the 50.00 mask I have now. Being cheap is expensive. So when diving came along. Only the best was purchased so it will last a long time. Like the Oceanic Probe lx. Bullet proof! Oh...I mentioned I have 7 kids? Anything which carries the title " Life Support" requires the best!

I don't have a time machine so I buy reliability now.

 

[String]

How does one PLAN a pony into a dive profile? No one PLANS to have a first stage malfunction.

TO an extent you do need to plan it. If you are carrying it for redundant bailout you have to calculate if it contains SUFFICIENT bailout for the dive and depth you are thinking of going. If it can then fine, if it cant then you need to move to twins instead.

One problem you do see with a lot of pony users if they don't plan or think about it. They go round thinking they're invincible because they have a spare tanks without having bothered to work out the maximum depth the thing will get them safely to the surface from. As a result they do dives beyond its capabilities with a false sense of security.

So, you do need to plan your bailout but its a backup plan not the main plan.

 

[Bottomfeeder Brodie]

Been a GREAT thread! Glad I didn't ask about jacket floation or back floation pros and cons.....might have to put on my helmet!

 

[ItsBruce]

What a great discussion. My 2 cents is redundant, but here goes:

As I see it, whether to use a pony is all a matter of risk assessment and risk management. I have a friend who made the assessment and manages risk by sitting on the boat and reading. That was his choice. I will not challenge it.

I don't do any particularly challenging dives and until I run out of those, I don't expect to do any. That is one way I manage my risk.

My experience has been that panic is a greater problem than OOA or equipment failure. As such, I'm not sure a pony would save that many lives.

In my personal situation, I'm not sure how often I would carry a pony. I've got all the elements, but have not done carried it. I see it as too much additional effort for the safety margin it provides ... much like the safety margin of staying on the boat and reading.

I carry a Spare Air to manage the risk that I encounter in my dives. My personal thought is that if I lose all of my air at once, I want one full breath before I do my CESA. A second or third breath on the way would be great. And, per my calculations, I'll have a lot more than that. I don't mind carrying the SA and don't find it cumbersome, heavy, etc. and I've practiced with it.

It is not for everyone. But it is how I manage the risk I perceive. When I perceive the risks as unacceptable, I'll trade my gear for Barnes & Nobel gift cards.

 

[potablewater]

It boils down to my mask theory. I moved to Florida and loved the water so I bought a cheap mask for 15 bucks. Times two ( wife). Lasted a week. Bought two more for 25.00 each. Lasted a month. By the time I decides to just cough up the money on a mechanics salary, I had spent 100.00 on the 50.00 mask I have now. Being cheap is expensive. So when diving came along. Only the best was purchased so it will last a long time. Like the Oceanic Probe lx. Bullet proof! Oh...I mentioned I have 7 kids? Anything which carries the title " Life Support" requires the best!

I don't have a time machine so I buy reliability now.

I totally agree with the adage "...you get what you pay for"...
If you know what type of diving you want to do, then buy it right to begin with.

All the best,
Geoff