THE "PERFECT ( being horizontal ) TRIM" HOAX

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Let us know when you find it on you tube. I've enjoyed re-reading this thread. I've been too long out of the water.

GUE.tv is a subscription service with fees, so they are probably not going to put the video on youtube (the small video on facebook is just an extract, for marketing). But you can enjoy three days for free - I am sure you would like the content a lot, and you would discover that we are not fanatic

GUE.tv
 
@BLACKCRUSADER, I am entirely with you. I often laugh seeing those "tec" divers making significant effort for keeping that unnatural "horizontal trim" position,


Just curious why its funny or why there is significant effort to keep in trim.

Generally most "tec" divers are using a back plate and wing or sidemount system and with the popularity of single tank BP&W growing exponentially in the recreationally diving community there are more people than ever using setups like this.

Now think about the physics of a wing. If you put some air in them they become buoyant and the natural path of least resistance if it is submerged in water is up. Next lets discuss the shape, majority are donut shaped/horse shoe shaped or if were talking about sidemount then just a big pancake shape of some sorts. So based on the shape of these big flat air filled balloons the will always want to float horizonal (if you don't believe be throw your inflated wing the pool and see how it naturally lays, I have yet to see a wing stand up on end) .

Next divers will put on equipment/weights so there negatively buoyant and to counter act this they will take that big flat buoyant balloon described above and strap it to there back. Instead of sinking into the abys diver will add gas to that balloon. Now think about where that big flat floaty balloon is attached to a diver and think about the physics how that is going to make the diver float. It makes a person naturally want to float horizontal assuming that have there equipment setup correct. Since the wing always wants to float up to the surface your back is the naturally high point for the gas in the wing. Same concept as if you were to put all the gas in the feet of your dry suit, guess what happens your feet point up and your head points down.

Lastly lets think propulsion, the whole point of diving is to swim around and have fun and look at stuff so. If your in a horizontal position and you kick your fins guess what direction you go in? Forward. If you in a vertical position and you kick your fins guess what direction you go in? Up.

Based on this I am not to sure why you think "tec" divers have to put significant effort to keep in trim or why its funny. Reason it is done is because it is a practical and efficient way to dive. If you have your equipment setup correct its actually very natural and do not require significate effort.

Next most of us "tec" divers dive CC. Try going in a vertical position with back mounted counter lungs. I guess if you like having hamster cheeks the whole dive and a significantly hard time breathing be my guest but for the rest of us its a lot more comfortable and natural to dive in trim.
 
This is basic scuba so nothing to do with tec dive.
BP/W might has gained some followers over last few yrs but they are still the minority by my own observation. I do not dive in local water and if I walk in to any of LDS, jacket is still the predominant models. Can't say about other places.
I dive BP/W but if I am looking at a wall I will tend to sit up a bit so to have better view of larger area.
Good trimming is fine but do not get overboard. Diving is a recreational sport.
 
This is basic scuba so nothing to do with tec dive.


The comment was specifically directed at tec diving.
word for word :
@BLACKCRUSADER, I am entirely with you. I often laugh seeing those "tec" divers making significant effort for keeping that unnatural "horizontal trim" position.

also being in trim has nothing to do with it being rec diving tec divine etc. or it be a recreational sport or "taking it over board" personally for me its just a natural position to be in while I'm diving. I just find it really hard to move forward when I kick if im not in a horizonal position. If I'm vertical and kick I just go up. If im horizontal and kick i move forward.

Also I really dont like diving with major hamster cheeks all day and I like my WOB to be normal and easy.
 
why there is significant effort to keep in trim.
This is a really good point. If it takes a lot of effort to stay in trim, you're doing it wrong. No, no if it takes any effort to be trim, then you're still doing it wrong. Flat is my zen position. It is my default. My resting attitude. The place of zero exertion where my sac is the smallest.
 
It takes absolutely no effort to stay in trim. None. Nada.

Except sorting your kit and techniques out before you dive

It takes a lot of effort and discomfort to hang around flapping your arms and legs around with kit all over the place kicking people around you whilst hanging on to the shot or SMB lines with your buoyancy shot to pieces.

For goodness sake have some pride in what you do man!
 
I believe the discussion is also that being in trim means being in a horizontal position. Now while that is fine for some situations it is not the only way to dive. We recently had a member asking why is it that he cannot do the sitting buddha position. It takes no effort for me to switch from horizontal to being in my buddha position which I like to use at the end of dives and also in fast drift diving. I will sit with legs crossed over and adjust my facing position using my hands. Yes hand propulsion is certainly correct to use for some situations as well.

For me trim is the position I want to be in at any point on my dive and sometimes that will mean being inverted, sometimes being head down at 30 degree angle going from the boat to reach a wreck dive at 35m depth, exhaling all my air and having a rapid descent.
Sometimes I have been in that 45 degree up angle to swim away from a down current. At times when taking macro photos on a reef wall I am in the vertical position controlling my buoyancy with my lungs. Yes I let myself control my breathing for getting macro photos and video as I want to be as still as possible. Sometimes I do acrobatic like movements that on land I cannot do but I can in the water.
I have fun with that and it also helps me stretch out. Being horizontal in open water when you are not near the sea floor or any reef is not necessary. I prefer to get into my buddha sitting position and slowly turn around where I get a better view being in that seated position. I would never consider doing a dive where I strive to remain in a horizontal position in open water. When filming whale sharks I am often not in the horizontal position especially when they are swimming above me.
 
I believe the discussion is also that being in trim means being in a horizontal position. Now while that is fine for some situations it is not the only way to dive. We recently had a member asking why is it that he cannot do the sitting buddha position. It takes no effort for me to switch from horizontal to being in my buddha position which I like to use at the end of dives and also in fast drift diving. I will sit with legs crossed over and adjust my facing position using my hands. Yes hand propulsion is certainly correct to use for some situations as well.

For me trim is the position I want to be in at any point on my dive and sometimes that will mean being inverted, sometimes being head down at 30 degree angle going from the boat to reach a wreck dive at 35m depth, exhaling all my air and having a rapid descent.
Sometimes I have been in that 45 degree up angle to swim away from a down current. At times when taking macro photos on a reef wall I am in the vertical position controlling my buoyancy with my lungs. Yes I let myself control my breathing for getting macro photos and video as I want to be as still as possible. Sometimes I do acrobatic like movements that on land I cannot do but I can in the water.
I have fun with that and it also helps me stretch out. Being horizontal in open water when you are not near the sea floor or any reef is not necessary. I prefer to get into my buddha sitting position and slowly turn around where I get a better view being in that seated position. I would never consider doing a dive where I strive to remain in a horizontal position in open water. When filming whale sharks I am often not in the horizontal position especially when they are swimming above me.

There is a thing that I still have not understood... does anyone ever told you that being not horizontal is always wrong? If yes, how many people said it?
 
It takes absolutely no effort to stay in trim. None. Nada.

Except sorting your kit and techniques out before you dive

It takes a lot of effort and discomfort to hang around flapping your arms and legs around with kit all over the place kicking people around you whilst hanging on to the shot or SMB lines with your buoyancy shot to pieces.

For goodness sake have some pride in what you do man!
Most divers I met on the road are vacation divers.
Practice makes perfect? They neither have the time nor inclination on a recreational sport. Standard of their initial training might have something to do with it. OW + AOW package together and after about 9 dives they are advanced diver!
 
Most divers I met on the road are vacation divers.
Practice makes perfect? They neither have the time nor inclination on a recreational sport. Standard of their initial training might have something to do with it. OW + AOW package together and after about 9 dives they are advanced diver!
Not to mention Buddha buoyancy skills
 

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