The PADI ascent order

[RiverRat]

Just my 2 cents:
I'm a new diver but I think I would rather buddy breathe than do a CESA from 100 fsw unless that was my only option. I'm hesitant to practice a CESA from 100 fsw even though I did one from 30 ffw in OW. Even if I was totally OOA and my buddies Octo failed (rare) we could still do a safe ascent from 100 fsw together air permitting. If buddy got low on air I could then CESA from 30 fsw maybe or some other scenario. I understand that yes, buoyancy needs to be mastered first then procede with the more advanced breathing skills, but it should be offered, advised. I just came back from an awesome trip to G. Cayman and was lucky to buddy up with a very safe and conservative diver. As I'm new and these were my first dives in new gear (BP/W and computer) and over 60 fsw to 100 fsw I had some concerns about that. As an example of buddy problems, the DM on one of my last dives "paired" me up with a second "buddy". We all had 1500 psi left after the tour and he tagged along while we swam around the reef near the mooring line area. In any event he signalled he was down to 1000 psi and wanted to go up already. He gave me the thumbs up and before I could even coordinate ascent between me, my "real" buddy and my "new" buddy he was already 10-15 above me and heading to the surface. I was hoping to get everyone to the line and do a nice SLOW, controlled ascent. In any event I watched him go to the surface best I could and went to the line with my buddy. He must have been doing AT LEAST 60 fpm. This may be because PADI still teaches 60 fpm although my Vyper is set to 30 fpm max. In any event I was diving all week and not about to blow my brains out tailing this guy to the top. While I was watching him I actually went up a few feet too fast and my Vyper's ceiling indicator lit up telling me to chill out. I can see how what seems to be a perfect dive can turn ugly quick just from some stupid and confusing things going on.......I stuck with my buddy I'd been diving with all week. What if I tailed him and she ran out of air? WE both may have gotten bent or AGE, and she would have had to do a CESA..........

 

[Zept]

MikeFerrara said...
But...things have an uncanny nack of not working when you need them. Also how many divers do we see diving with their backup just dangling where they will never find it fast enough if they need it.

simbrooks said...
Lets just hypothetically say that you didnt look after your octo, it got gunked up or wasnt working for lack of maintenance or something else happened to it, what would your next order of preference be CESA or Buddy Breathing?

Hypothetically speaking, if you don't have the sense to look after your octopus, I doubt you have the commitment to learn and practise buddy breathing.

It is not hard to check the octopus during a buddy check. It is not hard to secure it properly. It is not hard to get your regulator serviced annually. If you are not doing any of those things, I think you have more to worry about than the relative merits of CESA and buddy breathing

Z

 

[MikeFerrara]

Zept,

I agree but I see a lot of dangling octos and divers who don't handle problems of any kind well.

 

[Cudabait]

Our own Dr.Bill recently did a deep water CESA. I think at the moment he's down south working on a boat. Hope to see him in Utila in February.

By the way, there's still the option of getting expanding air out of the BCD while ascending......but it isn't taught....infectiion?????

 

[simbrooks]

I understand the point of "if you don't have the sense to look after your octopus, I doubt you have the commitment to learn and practise buddy breathing", it is only hypothetical after all. But as someone else said, if it is the 4th option after normal ascent, octo and CESA (according to PADI), then why have it as an option if we arent taught it???

We were told during training that in real emergencies that the BC could be used as an AAS, although that wasnt part of the curriculum. Not sure about infection if you clean it out every dive day or so.

 

[IndigoBlue]

HarleyDiver once bubbled...
Just another example why you should not blindly follow anyone or any group. Nobody's solution fits everyone.
.

Don't speak or think such blasphemy around JJ or around John Grodin however. LOL.

I agree with you, that it is important to think for yourself.

Question 1. The PADI preferred order of ascent.

Where did PADI get this anyway? Was John Grodin laying awake at night sleepless, and therefore did he decide to come up with another inflexible rule? [May he rest in peace.]

Given: PADI divers after 2 days of open water training are very possibly likely to run OOA. Anyone else with only 2 days of open water training is also very possibly likely to run OOA. Hopefully these divers at least learned good buddy skills in their 2 days of open water training. Probably not however. Maybe that is what kept John up late at night making inflexible rules?

Therefore John apparantly concluded that a PADI diver should always seek for the surface, in an OOA situation? So that he/she can live to dive another day, and Put Another Dollar In?

It all depends on where your priorities are.

If you have good buddy skills, hopefully you will be able to share-air with your buddy if you run OOA. If you have good diving skills, hopefully you will check your SPG at least every 5 mins, and will also check your buddy's SPG as well, and hopefully your buddy will check your SPG too. Then with two brains practicing good diving procedures and good buddy skills, neither of you will run OOA.

Question 2. What are some other inflexible rules that I abhor?

a) diving with only one electronic depth/timing device.

b) diving with all of your stage tanks slung to the same side.

Hmmm, now who would tell you to follow inflexible rules like that?

Please, lest I offend anyone, always remember, depending on the company you keep, you may not want to think for yourself. At least not all the time. Be discrete about it, of course!

 

[detroit diver]

Abhor? Pretty drastic.

Obviously you're referring to DIR.

a. No one ever dives with only one timing device when they are DIR.

2. Stages are to one side for all types of diving. Wreck, cave, scootering. You never have to change your equipment locations regardless of what type of diving you are doing. What's wrong with that?

IndigoBlue once bubbled...


Don't speak or think such blasphemy around JJ or around John Grodin however. LOL.

I agree with you, that it is important to think for yourself.

Question 1. The PADI preferred order of ascent.

Where did PADI get this anyway? Was John Grodin laying awake at night sleepless, and therefore did he decide to come up with another inflexible rule? [May he rest in peace.]

Given: PADI divers after 2 days of open water training are very possibly likely to run OOA. Anyone else with only 2 days of open water training is also very possibly likely to run OOA. Hopefully these divers at least learned good buddy skills in their 2 days of open water training. Probably not however. Maybe that is what kept John up late at night making inflexible rules?

Therefore John apparantly concluded that a PADI diver should always seek for the surface, in an OOA situation? So that he/she can live to dive another day, and Put Another Dollar In?

It all depends on where your priorities are.

If you have good buddy skills, hopefully you will be able to share-air with your buddy if you run OOA. If you have good diving skills, hopefully you will check your SPG at least every 5 mins, and will also check your buddy's SPG as well, and hopefully your buddy will check your SPG too. Then with two brains practicing good diving procedures and good buddy skills, neither of you will run OOA.

Question 2. What are some other inflexible rules that I abhor?

a) diving with only one electronic depth/timing device.

b) diving with all of your stage tanks slung to the same side.

Hmmm, now who would tell you to follow inflexible rules like that?

Please, lest I offend anyone, always remember, depending on the company you keep, you may not want to think for yourself. At least not all the time. Be discrete about it, of course!

 

[OneBrightGator]

IndigoBlue once bubbled...
John Grodin

If you're talking about the co-founder of PADI don't you mean John Cronin?

Ben

 

[IndigoBlue]

OneBrightGator once bubbled...


If you're talking about the co-founder of PADI don't you mean John Cronin?

Ben

thanks.

 

[dc4bs]

detroit diver once bubbled...
2. Stages are to one side for all types of diving. Wreck, cave, scootering. You never have to change your equipment locations regardless of what type of diving you are doing. What's wrong with that?

Well... Swiming in circles for one thing.
Put 2 or more on my left side and I'm a "nascar" diver (I tried this and didn't like it one bit)...

Hmm...

I do have to admit that I tried that with a borrowed backplate that was setup for someone smaller than me so the stage tanks hung at an angle across my chest. My buddy got a good laugh out of watching me that dive.

I suppose I should try it again in my own gear before saying anything more about it. Then I'll see how it is with the stage tanks riding much more comfortably and parallel to my torso instead of at an angle.

EDIT:
---------
Oops, lost the topic for a minute there.

I personaly have no issue with buddy breathing and my instructor wont take on a studant who will not learn it.

Personaly, I don't see the big deal, but I suppose I almost never dive (other than divemastering duties) with budies I dont trust enough to buddy breath with at an instants notice.

If I have no other choice, I'll bring either my 12 or 40 and sling it as a stage (depending on the dive profile). To date, I've never needed a bailout but there's always a first time for everything, right?