detroit diver
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Well, here's another problem to consider.
To teach buddy breathing, you'd have to teach bouyancy control in OW. As we all know, that doesn't happen either.
The PADI ascent order
- Thread starter sjhm
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Well, here's another problem to consider.
To teach buddy breathing, you'd have to teach bouyancy control in OW. As we all know, that doesn't happen either.
That's exactly my point. I've seen novice divers panic almost 100% of the time that anything at all went wrong. Learning to really manage a problem is the best way to gain the confidence that may prevent panic. The time to do that is before a diver is turned loose on their own, IMO.
I don't understand an industry that thinks that the skills that allow a diver to manage a problem are only for advanced divers. It's the novice and the divers they're with who is most likely to need the skill.
The way we now teach banks on the fact that things rarely go wrong. It's true, things rarely do go wrong. However, when they do I've rarely seen divers able to cope.
Buddy breathing is just another little tool in the bag that can really save the day.
And I have taught my fair share of classes where buddy breathing wasn't taught. No more though.
I believe all the agencies now either forbid teaching buddy breathing or make it optional. This comes from a fear of disease transmission than from a problem with the skill.
I have never taught a class in which I didn't include buddy breathing. Anyone taking my class has the option of learning buddy breathing or taking the class from another instructor. Buddy breathing is an easy skill to master. My students exchange gear while buddy breathing.
When anyone says buddy breathing is dangerous, they are saying, they don't want to teach it properly because they can't crank 'em through as quickly when they have to actually teach people to dive.
I've seen lots of divers panic when little things go wrong. Those divers have neverr really learned to dive. Corners were cut in their OW class. To eliminate this problem, we need to start teaching comprehensive classes again.
I have never taught a class in which I didn't include buddy breathing. Anyone taking my class has the option of learning buddy breathing or taking the class from another instructor. Buddy breathing is an easy skill to master. My students exchange gear while buddy breathing.
When anyone says buddy breathing is dangerous, they are saying, they don't want to teach it properly because they can't crank 'em through as quickly when they have to actually teach people to dive.
I've seen lots of divers panic when little things go wrong. Those divers have neverr really learned to dive. Corners were cut in their OW class. To eliminate this problem, we need to start teaching comprehensive classes again.
Ok, i dont mean this as a "learning new tricks from scubaboard", just would like to make sure. Buddy breathing is taking two breaths and passing on the same second stage to your buddy, the donor keeps hold of said second stage to ensure they get it back - ie. potentially panicked diver doesnt hog it. Slowly ascending in a controlled manner after the situation is handled at depth.
I read the technique or at least that is how i recall it from my YMCA manual, we didnt see nor practice it in our PADI OW class. However it is always good to know things and practice them and i would like to practice this skill with my buddy (GF) in a moderately controlled environment if possible so we are both used to it IF the donor's alternate second stage is non-functioning.
Our instructor wasnt keen on us doing more than one CESA during our training and really i can understand why as it is potentially a bit faster than a normal ascent.
I read the technique or at least that is how i recall it from my YMCA manual, we didnt see nor practice it in our PADI OW class. However it is always good to know things and practice them and i would like to practice this skill with my buddy (GF) in a moderately controlled environment if possible so we are both used to it IF the donor's alternate second stage is non-functioning.
Our instructor wasnt keen on us doing more than one CESA during our training and really i can understand why as it is potentially a bit faster than a normal ascent.
I believe that the standards call for it to be done reasonably shallow (20fsw or thereabouts) AND it should ALWAYS (whether in the standards or not!) be done when the nitrogen load is as light as possible.
There is ALWAYS a risk on a CESA of bad things happening. However, it is pretty important that you actually try one once, because many people are CONVINCED they cannot do them at all, and that they will die if they attempt it.
It is important to learn that indeed, you CAN do it, and that it is nowhere near as hard as it seems that it would be.
All the lecture about gas expansion and how you won't run out of gas in your lungs sounds nice, but until you actually TRY IT you won't (in your brain, not in your "head") believe it.
If you really NEED to do one, and don't believe you can make it, you may choose to do something really stupid instead.
In fact, most people really CAN do them from at least 60fsw, and I know two people who have done them from 100 fsw (and obviously, since I know them and they are breathing, they were successful.)
This is not to say that it is recommended - its not, obviously.
That's it, exactly. Back in the 70s when I was certified, BB was the ONLY option, and so we were good at it. Almost every dive, my Dad or myself would swim to the other, signal OOA, buddy breath for a bit, give the OK and go back to own reg, then continue the dive. If we'd ever had a real OOA, we wouldn't have been able to tell it from the practice, so there would be no panic.
Yes, it was easy 'cause we did it all the time.
However, todays agency's don't even teach it, so if I ever needed to BB, who would I do it with??
a safe second, or octopus, buddy breathing should be well down on the list of techniques.
Sharing air with the installed 2 second stages would be my first choice in an OOA.
I learned buddy breathing in OW class because the octo was a rare thing then.
Without training and regular practice buddy breathing is more risk than it is worth. That is buddy breathing using one second stage that is passed back and forth.
Sharing air with the installed 2 second stages would be my first choice in an OOA.
I learned buddy breathing in OW class because the octo was a rare thing then.
Without training and regular practice buddy breathing is more risk than it is worth. That is buddy breathing using one second stage that is passed back and forth.
Lets just hypothetically say that you didnt look after your octo, it got gunked up or wasnt working for lack of maintenance or something else happened to it, what would your next order of preference be CESA or Buddy Breathing? I understand that the safe second/octo option is by far the more prefered option, assuming you gas planned etc and have enough to share. I also understand that lack of training or practice also makes BB a tougher option, but is it not preferable if you are a little too deep than suggested (30/40ft from what i recall) to do a CESA?
Apologies about the statement earlier about CESA being quicker than a normal ascent, mine was about the same speed, BUT i was warned not to swim too hard and control my speed somewhat during that single practice. Also i think one of the reasons we only did it once is that if someone was not comfortable with breathing out or had that thought that they might run out of air (which i almost did run out of breath due to making the daft humming noise audible rather than just breathing out slowly) then they might get DCI over expansion injuries if they did it too much - and beside which i was having trouble that day equalising and the instructor wanted to make the 3 dives have only one ascent and descent to save my ears!!!
Apologies about the statement earlier about CESA being quicker than a normal ascent, mine was about the same speed, BUT i was warned not to swim too hard and control my speed somewhat during that single practice. Also i think one of the reasons we only did it once is that if someone was not comfortable with breathing out or had that thought that they might run out of air (which i almost did run out of breath due to making the daft humming noise audible rather than just breathing out slowly) then they might get DCI over expansion injuries if they did it too much - and beside which i was having trouble that day equalising and the instructor wanted to make the 3 dives have only one ascent and descent to save my ears!!!
The backup second is better protected by being bungied to my neck and the long hose makes sharing air easier.
I can hand my primary to the OOA buddy and go to my backup. If there is a problem with my backup I still have some time to solve it or go to buddy breathing.
I have not had a gunked up backup since switching to the bungied setup.
When I first trained the normal ascent rate was 60 fpm. Now the normal is 30 fpm. If air sharing I would stick to 30 fpm and do safety stops. For a CESA I would do 60 fpm all the way to the surface, perhaps even more depending on depth and status.
I can hand my primary to the OOA buddy and go to my backup. If there is a problem with my backup I still have some time to solve it or go to buddy breathing.
I have not had a gunked up backup since switching to the bungied setup.
When I first trained the normal ascent rate was 60 fpm. Now the normal is 30 fpm. If air sharing I would stick to 30 fpm and do safety stops. For a CESA I would do 60 fpm all the way to the surface, perhaps even more depending on depth and status.
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