The Octopus Conundrum

[MXGratefulDiver]

Did you freak out at 61? I mean, 60 was no big deal but I am kind of getting upset over 61, now a few days away. Oh well, game over I guess, nothing left to do but hang around scubaboard and aggravate people. Woe upon me.

I'm 63 ... plan on diving for a bunch more years ... hopefully another several at my current level before starting to back off to easier diving. I have a friend who dived locally till he was well into his 70's. He's 88 now, and only dives warm water ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

Just curious, how many of you, as a solo diver, still tote an octopus/safe second on your main tank regulator? And why if so?

N

Hi Nem,

I solo dive with the same rig I take on single tank buddy dives here in Hawaii, which these days is a BP/W with long hose and bungied backup under my chin.

I do this simply because it is easiest; I don't find the extra hose a big problem.

In the 1970's, I also dove one rig for both solo and buddy dives. In those days it was of course a steel 72, basic backpack-style harness to hold the tank, and a Calypso-J reg with only one 2nd stage. No stinkin' BC.

So, why in heavens name would I need an "octopus" when solo diving in the generally benign ocean of Hawaii to depths that on average are no greater than 60 feet?? Well, I don't really, and I'm not terribly concerned about a "failure" of my primary 2nd since I service all my own gear and I'm intimately familiar with it and supremely confident it will not fail....

But at the same time there is a very, very slight chance I might encounter another diver on my dive, and an even smaller chance that this diver might need to share air.... But there is a very large chance that unlike you and I that diver will not be trained in buddy breathing, and being a Good Samaritan type of guy I don't think I could let them drown or embolize themselves... so an extra 2nd seems like a minor inconvenience to me.

But not 100% necessary either if I was totally sure I'd be the only one in my little part of the Pacific that dive.

Best wishes.

 

[Nemrod]

Hi Nem,

I solo dive with the same rig I take on single tank buddy dives here in Hawaii, which these days is a BP/W with long hose and bungied backup under my chin.

I do this simply because it is easiest; I don't find the extra hose a big problem.

I the 1970's, I also dove one rig for both solo and buddy dives. In those days it was of course a steel 72, basic backpack-style harness to hold the tank, and a Calypso-J reg with only one 2nd stage. No stinkin' BC.

So, why in heavens name would I need an "octopus" when solo diving in the generally benign ocean of Hawaii to depths that on average are no greater than 60 feet?? Well, I don't really, and I'm not terribly concerned about a "failure" of my primary 2nd since I service all my own gear and I'm intimately familiar with it and supremely confident it will not fail....

But at the same time there is a very, very slight chance I might encounter another diver on my dive, and an even smaller chance that this diver might need to share air.... But there is a very large chance that unlike you and I that diver will not be trained in buddy breathing, and being a Good Samaritan type of guy I don't think I could let them drown or embolize themselves... so an extra 2nd seems like a minor inconvenience to me.

But not 100% necessary either if I was totally sure I'd be the only one in my little part of the Pacific that dive.

Best wishes.

I understand, thanks, but in my case since I am solo and often sans pony or other true redundancy (as it seems you are as well) I am definitely interested in eliminating all unnecessary failure points and I guess I do indeed consider the octopus/second a failure point for the solo diver. I am trying to decide in my mind if the Air II type device represents a net increase in failure points if it replaces/eliminates an octopus/second. And, do these integrated things offer any real potential for air sharing? Thus, if so, I could eliminate a failure point for solo (the octo/second) and still retain some ability to air share for buddy diving and thus use only one rig instead of my current two (or three or four or five etc.). I would not be adding the integrated inflator for redundancy for myself as it is not redundant anymore than is the standard octo/second on a single tank with a single first. But I want to use the same rig for travel buddy diving.

I am surprised, actually should not be, how many do not rig for solo when solo diving and do not use redundancy (including myself on that one). And before y'all jump on me again about my 60 foot Rubicon, as my age increases and my abilities decrease, that is an adjustable, flexible number. It was once 100 feet which in my 30s, I could easily do free diving. Hardly anymore, my 60ish foot rule might be subject to revision very soon.

Shhhh, do not tell on me, I hope this does not make peoples heads blow off, the integrated reg/inflator would be replacing this little fellow.

N

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I gotta ask a question, back when there were only double hoses and no way to have any sort of "safe" second do you think people got their panties all up in a wad over it?
Back when the first single hose regs came out and some 1st stages only had one LP port do you think people got their panties up in a wad over that too?
I wasn't there, but I've done my history lesson and read stories about the first people to dive the Doria, all using double hoses and AIR, OMG!!! freak out time!!

Here's what I do. I have several regs like others here who have collected and configured many regs many different ways. For my solo basic jump in and shoot a fish for dinner reg I have several I could use, but right now it's an old Conshelf with a single G200B on it and a small simple SPG, that's all. I'll use this down to 80-90 feet but most of the good stuff that I target is in the 40 to 50 foot range. I work on my own stuff so I know what condition they are in. I keep my stuff in perfect shape. I keep track of things like IP and 2nd stage tuning. I've come to the conclusion that the drive out there is 25 times more dangerous than the remote possibility my reg is going to fragmentation grenade and have a glowing nuclear meltdown. I also know that in the event that my reg is going to blow up and knock my teeth out (which I should go get a lotto ticket because my chances of winning are greater than my reg blowing up) the surface isn't far away and I can just go up and get all the air I want.
I would expect to be attacked by a shark way before my reg blows up and puts a hole in my head.
I also have regs with all the long hose crap and bungeed seconds yada yada. That's for the comfort of worry-wort buddies (when I buddy with unknowns) who look over my stuff like we're on a space mission and we're not going to get back to Earth unless my stuff meets their approval. It's certainly not for me, I see it as a liability and more crap that can go wrong. BTW, some people say that buddies are a piece of redundant equipment, I see them as a piece of redundant equipment that can go wrong way easier than a single second on a reg on a single tank while solo diving.
It might be different in a cave but not where I dive.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I gotta ask a question, back when there were only double hoses and no way to have any sort of "safe" second do you think people got their panties all up in a wad over it?

I'm not sure where you see anyone getting their panties all up in a wad in this discussion. Someone asked a question ... can it not be answered with a variety of different viewpoints?

Not sure what you're seeing, but this all seems like a pretty civil discussion to me ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Akimbo]

I gotta ask a question, back when there were only double hoses and no way to have any sort of "safe" second do you think people got their panties all up in a wad over it?....

Nope. Everyone learned to buddy breathe, do free ascents, and regulator performance gave a lot more warning of being OOA. OK, there were lever-reserve J-valves but they didn’t reserve much gas for a dive like the Doria and nobody felt they were stake-your-life-on-it dependable. J-valves reserved 300-500 PSI in one cylinder on a doubles set. You can hear the cylinders equalizing when you pull it.

Octos actually increases risk to the primary diver in a severely air-capacity limited scenario like the Doria. All regulators have been incredibly reliable, but their failure mode is virtually always free-flow. An octo increases your chances of getting a freeflow and loosing valuable air. The chances don’t increase quite by twice because the root cause is often the first stage IP creeping too high… but close.

They may have left a spare set of doubles on the downline during that first Doria dive. It was a known backup procedure on extreme dives.

 

[DaleC]

I also have regs with all the long hose crap and bungeed seconds yada yada. That's for the comfort of worry-wort buddies (when I buddy with unknowns) who look over my stuff like we're on a space mission and we're not going to get back to Earth unless my stuff meets their approval. It's certainly not for me, I see it as a liability and more crap that can go wrong.

I want to address this notion. Yeah... I'm sure as an unknown diver you are gods gift to diving but that second reg you are packing is for me, not you. It's my regulator and reserve gas so I don't think I'm being a worry wart to want to ensure it's both functional and deployable. I will extend the same consideration by demonstrating both to you pre-dive.

Solo diving does not need to mean an erosion or mocking of solid buddy skills.

 

[danvolker]

I want to address this notion. Yeah... I'm sure as an unknown diver you are gods gift to diving but that second reg you are packing is for me, not you. It's my regulator and reserve gas so I don't think I'm being a worry wart to want to ensure it's both functional and deployable. I will extend the same consideration by demonstrating both to you pre-dive.

Solo diving does not need to mean an erosion or mocking of solid buddy skills.

As long as diver that is diving solo...be it Eric, or me, or you, has the skills to do AIR SHARE with a single reg, and the diver that needs the donation is marginally competent as an advanced diver--the kind of diver that belongs on a charter boat doing some fairly challenging and advanced recreational dives....sharing the single reg just means a tiny bit of skip breathing, and a decision that the dive is over, and at least one person will be holding on to the other and controlling the air share---probably the one that is worse at skip breathing

I have done this under conditions far more challenging than any cave or tech scenario, with no difficulty whatsoever....you are just passing a reg back and forth--as long as both divers are good divers--neither is a panic prone diver ( which I consider a poor diver), then the passing of the single reg is fine for the kind of recreational profiles being discussed here....

Again, the long hose and necklace reg, are a development which at least my group ( WKPP and DIR's) adopted for team based diving in cave, or serious deep tech dives....places and challenges that the single hose sharing was not the right tool for. Since DIR has us diving the same gear, everywhere we go ( other than the doubles versus singles), most of us just always use the 2 hose system....But this is not because we could not share air with 2 divers ( with DIR skill sets) each using vintage gear and single regs....we could still easily handle our buddy responsibilities for recreational profiles like this....we would NOT be diving DIR, but "DIR always", does not have to be your defining claim to fame

I can easily see George Irvine jumping over the side of a sportfish boat off key largo, in 40 feet of water, with a tank on a harness, a single reg and mask and fins, just to checkout something on the bottom that got the boat interested.

---------- Post added March 12th, 2015 at 12:28 PM ----------

As I think about it....put Jarrod Jablonski on a sportfish or cruising yacht...and if an anchor is caught in 60 feet or reasonable recreational depth, and there is a single tank set up with single reg on it....I am pretty sure JJ would be happy enough to deal with the anchor snag using the gear available. Something tells me he has the skill set, and I don't think he would be afraid of the DIR police

 

[scubadada]

Those of us that have been around for a while (for me, 1970), were taught to buddy breathe and this was not a problem. My first equipment, Scubapro Mk5/109 had a J valve on the tank but I did have a SPG. Diving may be safer, or at least more flexible now, but many of the divers are simply not of the quality they were in the old days. Sorry, but I'm an old fogey. I was going to say an old gomer but thought most would not get the medical allusion.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

... but many of the divers are simply not of the quality they were in the old days.

I keep reading this claim ... but some of the old fogeys I've dived with haven't turned out to be very good divers ... especially if you were expecting them to be a dive buddy. Had one fellow who spent hours telling me how much better the training was back in the '60's ... when he first started diving. The dude looked like a rototiller underwater ... and during the entire dive he never even looked at me once. I spent the whole dive essentially chasing him. That's not my idea of "quality" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)