In my very short time diving, I am eager to take my AOW and Rescue Diver courses, but I acknowledge the fact that without perfecting the basic skills and gaining experience - and believe me, this board, and diving with more advanced divers has shown me how inexperienced I am - is invaluable. I can relate to his experience because of the lack of confidence he didn't make the right decisions even though he was right. He knew his tanks weren't a good fill, he knew he was going too far away, but he put his trust in everyone around him instead of his good instincts and training. To me, I see myself doing that on every dive to some degree. My buddies know my experience level, they help me and keep watchful eye. Until I trust my own instincts and have confidence in my abilities, you won't find me going for my AOW.
The Mis-Adventures of my AOW class- READ!
- Thread starter MichaelG
- Start date
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Your point is well taken. That is why he should have been under direct supervision by an instructor. That's what he paid for, that's what he needed and that is what he should have received. Of course, I question whether this particular instructor would have made any difference.
IMHO, however, the problem is somewhat deeper. This diver had two OOA's in a row. He doesn't understand the basics of gas management. He apparently went on a night dive without lights. Finally, he did two repetitive deep dives without calculating his profile. This goes far beyond trusting more experienced divers and into the realm of dangerous, reckless disregard for his own safety. Alternatively, it suggests that he was not taught or did not absorb the material in the OW class.
Either way, if this diver is medically cleared to dive again, he should obtain supplemental training to correct the knowledge gaps.
I have some things I would like to say to the instructor. I see instructors try to kill students every weekend. I have no more patience for them. The instructors have no idea what their job is. The student will have a hard time learning what the instructor doesn't know. Instructors are responsible for more than selling spots on Caribbean trips. Please call the agency! They need to know!
I say, the instructor should not be teaching. He has a dangerous attitude. I wouldn't even dive with him let alone pay the idiot. He would need much remediation (especially his thinking) before I would even accept him as a student.
There are no words too harsh for this gamoke!
I say, the instructor should not be teaching. He has a dangerous attitude. I wouldn't even dive with him let alone pay the idiot. He would need much remediation (especially his thinking) before I would even accept him as a student.
There are no words too harsh for this gamoke!
That is why, IMHO, this diver needs to find a new shop and a new instructor.
As for my night dive, I did have all the necessary equipment, including cyanumin sticks and dive lights.
The last thing I am doing is blaming everyone but myself. I am the first to take responsibility. I had an understanding of the risks prior to taking the dive. The biggest blame I can take is the fact that I put my trust where it should not have been. I depended on someone who was supposed to watch out for me and did not.
Let's be real for a second. I was a student in a class following the lead of my instructor/LDS. If there are knowledge gaps, I can be held responsible for those gaps, but more importantly those gaps should have been identified by the instructor/LDS before they allowed me to make such a dive under their guidance. When I take a class, I expect to be taught a class. I do not go to school and have the teacher tell me thanks for joining, good luck.
This thread was not started to say those F'ers messed me up. The thread was for others to read so they do not make the same mistakes I did. It was very easy to become overwelmed with the excitement of the dive itself and very easy to get carried away. I am not, nor was I a pro-diver. The only good aspect of this whole thing is that I learned that I can stay in control in a dive going bad. Even knowing that I was going OOA, I maintained my cool as best as I could, controlled my rapid ascent as well as possible and made it to a safety-stop for as long as I could. I did exactly what I needed to do to make sure I get out of the water alive and minimze the risk of severe DCS.
This thread is not a "feel sorry for me", nor is a b*tch session to voice my anger. I want people to learn from my experience that you CANNOT depend on anyone but yourself and it is up to you to make sure you make it out of the water alive and DCS free. There are alot of people in this forum that think they are prepared for the deep. I don't want anyone to make the same mistakes.
--MichaelG
The instructor is responsible for making sure the student posseses the requisit knowlege and skills. The instructor is responsible for maintaining adequate control. I am not suprised that a new diver or even his "more experienced buddy" could make mistakes that create a potentially dangerous situation. I wish I was suprised that an instructor failed to have adequate control. In this case we need not go further than the standards violations. The student has no way of knowing when standards are violated.
MichaelG
I totally appreciate your post. It validated my reasoning for holding off on going through AOW cert. In your defense, don't you think the instructor along with you should have assessed your "readiness" for this course, how are you or I to really know if our skill levels are appropriate? You hardly had any dives under your belt.
In defense of "the board". Don't take it personally, the discussions here are candid and people don't hold back, sometimes that is a good thing, people will give it to you straight.
Thanks for the post, it was enlightening to me being a new diver as well. Hope it all turns out well for you and that you keep diving? BTW - Did you get AOW certified?
I totally appreciate your post. It validated my reasoning for holding off on going through AOW cert. In your defense, don't you think the instructor along with you should have assessed your "readiness" for this course, how are you or I to really know if our skill levels are appropriate? You hardly had any dives under your belt.
In defense of "the board". Don't take it personally, the discussions here are candid and people don't hold back, sometimes that is a good thing, people will give it to you straight.
Thanks for the post, it was enlightening to me being a new diver as well. Hope it all turns out well for you and that you keep diving? BTW - Did you get AOW certified?
Dear MichaelG:
Believe it or not, I actually agree with you, with one exception.
Your instructor screwed the pooch big time. He should have his ticket yanked. Enough said about that.
My other comments were not directed towards criticizing your performance. I suppose that it counts for something that you got out alive. That fact that you may not have known better goes to your training.
I believe you when you say that you knew the risks. What you don't know is how to manage the risks, which is why I suggested additional training from a different shop. I'm not suggesting that you need to learn fin pivots or mask clearing. Instead, you need to learn dive management. A good shop will teach you how to evaluate a dive, minimize the risks associated with the dive and, when those risks cannot be properly managed, to say "NO".
I tried to make my posts detailed for because I wanted to establish the basis for my suggestions and not simply sound off. I also wanted to suggest an alternative method that might help in the future. For what its worth, what I posted is how I dive.
I agree that you did not ask us to feel sorry for you. However, it is important that you recognize your role in the situation or you will be doomed to repeat your earlier mistakes.
My one disagreement is that I have no problem blaming the shop, the instructor and whoever certified you in the first place. You were not sufficiently trained to manage the dive or the danger you faced and you were left hanging. That is unacceptable.
BTW, I am not a professional diver. I am simply another diver with an opinion based on training and experience. If I am wrong, then I invite correction. In the meantime, I stand by my position.
Believe it or not, I actually agree with you, with one exception.
Your instructor screwed the pooch big time. He should have his ticket yanked. Enough said about that.
My other comments were not directed towards criticizing your performance. I suppose that it counts for something that you got out alive. That fact that you may not have known better goes to your training.
I believe you when you say that you knew the risks. What you don't know is how to manage the risks, which is why I suggested additional training from a different shop. I'm not suggesting that you need to learn fin pivots or mask clearing. Instead, you need to learn dive management. A good shop will teach you how to evaluate a dive, minimize the risks associated with the dive and, when those risks cannot be properly managed, to say "NO".
I tried to make my posts detailed for because I wanted to establish the basis for my suggestions and not simply sound off. I also wanted to suggest an alternative method that might help in the future. For what its worth, what I posted is how I dive.
I agree that you did not ask us to feel sorry for you. However, it is important that you recognize your role in the situation or you will be doomed to repeat your earlier mistakes.
My one disagreement is that I have no problem blaming the shop, the instructor and whoever certified you in the first place. You were not sufficiently trained to manage the dive or the danger you faced and you were left hanging. That is unacceptable.
BTW, I am not a professional diver. I am simply another diver with an opinion based on training and experience. If I am wrong, then I invite correction. In the meantime, I stand by my position.
I absolutely 100% agree with everything you said. The reason for taking the AOW was not to go "deep". I took the class because I did not feel comfortable with diving NE wrecks with my limited experience. The facts are simple: NE diving is tough and requires experience.
The intention of taking AOW is exactly what you mention. I thaught I would learn dive management with a class environment that would try to make it as safe as possible. I was hoping I would learn how to be a safer diver. Instead I learned what not to do in the future. I think my failures as a diver was letting my gaurd down and getting caught up in the excitement of it all. To my own defense, the instructor should have kept me in line with the dangers I was facing.
I know I keep putting a little blame elseware, but the issue I am dealing with is a double-edge sword. There is plenty of blame to go around and I will not sit idly by and take in all the blame. I want everyone who is thinking about taking an AOW class be aware of the inherent dangers and be better prepared for what can occur if the proper procedures are not followed.
--MichaelG
The issue may be somewhat more lopsided that you believe.
Your mistakes may be attributable to ignorance and poor training. At a mimimun, they are the type of mistakes a new diver makes and should, therefore, have been anticipated by your instructor.
IMHO, your instructor's mistakes are those of an incompetant fool who neglected the safety of his students and who has no business teaching.
If your statements are accurate, then your mistakes can be corrected through training and experience. His mistakes can be corrected by removing him from a leadership position.
I would love to debate hear your instructor's side of this debacle. Any chance he would like to cross swords on the Board?
Your mistakes may be attributable to ignorance and poor training. At a mimimun, they are the type of mistakes a new diver makes and should, therefore, have been anticipated by your instructor.
IMHO, your instructor's mistakes are those of an incompetant fool who neglected the safety of his students and who has no business teaching.
If your statements are accurate, then your mistakes can be corrected through training and experience. His mistakes can be corrected by removing him from a leadership position.
I would love to debate hear your instructor's side of this debacle. Any chance he would like to cross swords on the Board?
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