Dear MichaelG:
Its been a few more days. Any improvement?
Its been a few more days. Any improvement?
The Mis-Adventures of my AOW class- READ!
- Thread starter MichaelG
- Start date
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Actually, yes and no....I am no longer feeling any consistent pain but I do still have a general weakness in my left arm with some numbness/tingling feeling in my left hand (depending on the position of my arm).
The pulmonary specialist at Hyperbarrics referred me to a neurologist after I stated I was not 100% after recompression therapy. I decided to visit my personal physician again yesterday and after a few more tests, he agreed that I should visit a neurologist.
I have been trying to convince myself and my doctor that I do not have DCS. While all the symptoms of DCS exist and they are certainly suspicous because of my diving activities, I truly believe that what I am experiencing was extreme exertion on my arms with all the equipment and the anxiety of diving. I cannot help but to believe that I pulled a muscle or pinched a nerve that is making my arm/hand feel the way it is. Regardless, my doctor disagrees and is insisting that the probability of DCS is high.
I have been working off of Motrin (Ibuprofen) for the past couple of days. When the day starts off, I feel like there has been no progress, but as the day progresses and I think less about my arm, I feel much better until the following morning.
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Try to use the 1/3 method in any dives deeper than 60ft.
1/3 for the dive.
1/3 for the return to surface, including safety stops, ect.
1/3 for the unknown risks factor.
I have used this method since the sixties. Be conservative in diving.
When doing a deep dive such as 100ft. Next dive should be limited to roughly 45ft to 55ft. Pending on dive table profile. Remember dive computers are multi-level in calculations. The may say that you could go deeper than 55ft. Don't push it!
If you do a third dive, stay above 30ft.
If you push the tables and get away of it you are lucky. I have seen and known many dive instuctors say you can't get bent on one tank dive. Ask Divers Alert Network for their stats.
I been around where one diver gets bent and the other diver did not get bent. The dive was to 160ft with a bottom of time of 15 minutes. They were diving with twin 80's. They did manditory stops and extended them. Still one got bent. Showed up about 2 hours later. The difference is individual metabolism. Nobody is the same. Man is still learning the dive tables.
scubatomwetzel
dive instuctor of many years.
1/3 for the dive.
1/3 for the return to surface, including safety stops, ect.
1/3 for the unknown risks factor.
I have used this method since the sixties. Be conservative in diving.
When doing a deep dive such as 100ft. Next dive should be limited to roughly 45ft to 55ft. Pending on dive table profile. Remember dive computers are multi-level in calculations. The may say that you could go deeper than 55ft. Don't push it!
If you do a third dive, stay above 30ft.
If you push the tables and get away of it you are lucky. I have seen and known many dive instuctors say you can't get bent on one tank dive. Ask Divers Alert Network for their stats.
I been around where one diver gets bent and the other diver did not get bent. The dive was to 160ft with a bottom of time of 15 minutes. They were diving with twin 80's. They did manditory stops and extended them. Still one got bent. Showed up about 2 hours later. The difference is individual metabolism. Nobody is the same. Man is still learning the dive tables.
scubatomwetzel
dive instuctor of many years.
I agree with your method and use the Rule of Thirds myself. However, I usually knock off 300- 500 ilb right off the top "for the boat" and use the remaining gas to calcultate my thirds. That way, you don't end up with a completely empty tank if you go into the unknown risk factor gas. Additionally, since a shared air/buddy breathe return from the turn would probably be stressful, the "for the boat" gas gives you a little extra.
I will also admit that my buddies and I will sometime fiddle around near the line before beginning our ascent. Our general thought is that so long as we keep enough gas to makes a shared breathing ascent, we can explore near the anchor line.
ScubaCRNA
Guest
So let me get this straight:
On the Rule of thirds, say you have 3000 psi with an 80cf tank.
Descend and go out on 1000, back using 1000. Ascend with 1000 (using probably 500 to get into the boat with 500)?
How much air do you figure you use with squirts of air in your bc for controlling buoyancy during a dive? On the average guestamate?
On the Rule of thirds, say you have 3000 psi with an 80cf tank.
Descend and go out on 1000, back using 1000. Ascend with 1000 (using probably 500 to get into the boat with 500)?
How much air do you figure you use with squirts of air in your bc for controlling buoyancy during a dive? On the average guestamate?
Newhampster
Contributor
Half a cubic foot? [less than 1%...call it 20PSI on a 3000 PSI 80 CU FT tank]
The other think to keep in mind. Track and estimate air consumption.
So...don't just say "1000 psi out". You ought to be able to figure out (estimate) how long it will take you to get to that point. Plan your dives...
Keep a record of how much air you consume on each dive (plus length of dive and, if you have a dive computer, average depth).
With my dive computer, I get (on my laptop when I upload the data from my Cobra) an SCFM measure for every dive. SCFM == standardized cubic feet of air consumed per minute. Where "standardized" is what my consumption would have been on the surface. My SCFM ranges from 0.4 to 0.75 (typically 0.40 to 0.55 unless I'm fighting current, etc.)
With SCFM, I can estimate, for any size tank, for any simple dive profile, how long my air will last...(i.e., how far I will go on 1000 psi or 500 psi or whatever).
Enjoy,
java
Guest
Michael has there been any progress with your recouperation?
Have you been planning on any diving since the accident?
Do you plan on finding an other shop?
Have you been planning on any diving since the accident?
Do you plan on finding an other shop?
Jersey
Contributor
MikeG
So sorry to hear of your misadventures. Hope you are doing better, please keep the board informed. (My husband always wonders why I read all the horror stuff, my answer to be better prepared and learn from those more experienced! And there is certainly a lot of good material following your post.)
Couple things - how do the rest of you feel about 2 instructors w/ 4 students, 2 "more experienced divers" given Jersey waters? Maybe I'm too conservative, but knowing Jersey diving (cold, low viz, strong rip, non-navigable inlets, dangerous wrecks) I would have thought the LDS would have included more supervision. (My LDS diver/instructor-DM ratio is almost 1:1, sometimes I think we have more DM's then divers)
Had you considered returning to Dutch Springs for the AOW dives? My husband completed his there, due to the newness of nav and nite, he wanted a little more confined space and feared the situation you encountered - being sucked out to sea. Granted it is not a 'real world' situation, but his experience there was great.
About the pony bottle questions, for some reason we in Jersey love our ponies! As was pointed out, they are never included in calculations for available air, are for extreme circumstances, are added insurance polices and are there to help buddies and fellow divers more so then for the person carrying the pony. None of the NJ boats I've worked with require a pony, but most have a profound respect for it. We travel with our own. The price of the hydro is worth it to us.
Training - I was appalled when I realized you could take an OW course over a WEEKEND. Fri/Sat/Sun to learn the fundamentals. Absorbing the theory, learning the calculations, spending skills practice time in the pool and then doing a check out the next weekend? Even my LDS, whom I consider very reputable, offers this option. Being a little older, slower and having a few more ducets, I opted for 'learn at your own pace' program. I took 3.5 months - 3 nights classroom - theory and testing, at least 10 nights in the pool (I said I was slow). I had some of those weekend students in my OW check outs. I did not feel they were as prepared as they should have been. Their level of comfort setting up gear and general lack of knowledge was sad.
About buddies - I would like to expand on Spectre's post. You place your life in your buddies hands. The word is not "briefly acquainted with", it is "buddy". I am lucky to have 2 people I dive with 95% of the time. We still have a pre-dive talk about plan, how we feel - stressed, fatigued, air fills, etc. I will not dive beyond 30-40 with a new buddy. People new to us have a long talk before we get near the water. We communicate signals, plans, etc. I am a heavy breather and not hesitant to inform others, early and often, of my propensity to suck a lot of air in certain situations. My friends have had to shorten a few dives because of me, too bad.
Last, please, please report incidents and episodes such as this. Recreational diving is an activity that relies upon self-reporting. Valid statistical information can only be accumlated if we report. The more valid the info we all have, the safer we can all be. And remember - P5 - proper planning prevents potential problems.
Good luck Mike! Hope to see you on a boat sometime, lookin for Jersey bugs. Yummy.
So sorry to hear of your misadventures. Hope you are doing better, please keep the board informed. (My husband always wonders why I read all the horror stuff, my answer to be better prepared and learn from those more experienced! And there is certainly a lot of good material following your post.)
Couple things - how do the rest of you feel about 2 instructors w/ 4 students, 2 "more experienced divers" given Jersey waters? Maybe I'm too conservative, but knowing Jersey diving (cold, low viz, strong rip, non-navigable inlets, dangerous wrecks) I would have thought the LDS would have included more supervision. (My LDS diver/instructor-DM ratio is almost 1:1, sometimes I think we have more DM's then divers)
Had you considered returning to Dutch Springs for the AOW dives? My husband completed his there, due to the newness of nav and nite, he wanted a little more confined space and feared the situation you encountered - being sucked out to sea. Granted it is not a 'real world' situation, but his experience there was great.
About the pony bottle questions, for some reason we in Jersey love our ponies! As was pointed out, they are never included in calculations for available air, are for extreme circumstances, are added insurance polices and are there to help buddies and fellow divers more so then for the person carrying the pony. None of the NJ boats I've worked with require a pony, but most have a profound respect for it. We travel with our own. The price of the hydro is worth it to us.
Training - I was appalled when I realized you could take an OW course over a WEEKEND. Fri/Sat/Sun to learn the fundamentals. Absorbing the theory, learning the calculations, spending skills practice time in the pool and then doing a check out the next weekend? Even my LDS, whom I consider very reputable, offers this option. Being a little older, slower and having a few more ducets, I opted for 'learn at your own pace' program. I took 3.5 months - 3 nights classroom - theory and testing, at least 10 nights in the pool (I said I was slow). I had some of those weekend students in my OW check outs. I did not feel they were as prepared as they should have been. Their level of comfort setting up gear and general lack of knowledge was sad.
About buddies - I would like to expand on Spectre's post. You place your life in your buddies hands. The word is not "briefly acquainted with", it is "buddy". I am lucky to have 2 people I dive with 95% of the time. We still have a pre-dive talk about plan, how we feel - stressed, fatigued, air fills, etc. I will not dive beyond 30-40 with a new buddy. People new to us have a long talk before we get near the water. We communicate signals, plans, etc. I am a heavy breather and not hesitant to inform others, early and often, of my propensity to suck a lot of air in certain situations. My friends have had to shorten a few dives because of me, too bad.
Last, please, please report incidents and episodes such as this. Recreational diving is an activity that relies upon self-reporting. Valid statistical information can only be accumlated if we report. The more valid the info we all have, the safer we can all be. And remember - P5 - proper planning prevents potential problems.
Good luck Mike! Hope to see you on a boat sometime, lookin for Jersey bugs. Yummy.
grouchyturtle
Contributor
Please post the name of the LDS and instructor or at least send a private message to us NJ divers.
I live in NJ and got my OW a few months back.
Me and my buddy already have a few LDSs trying to push us towards AOW. Is Putting Another Dollar In so important that us newbies safety doesn't even matter to these shops?
NO WAY! We're not ready yet.
I agree with shellbird. I want to a get a lot more dives in to get more confident and better at my skills before I even think about AOW.
But no matter how experienced I am when I do decide to go. I don't want some instructor who's just going shrug off any potential problems I point out, toss me in, and then dissapear.
I live in NJ and got my OW a few months back.
Me and my buddy already have a few LDSs trying to push us towards AOW. Is Putting Another Dollar In so important that us newbies safety doesn't even matter to these shops?
NO WAY! We're not ready yet.
I agree with shellbird. I want to a get a lot more dives in to get more confident and better at my skills before I even think about AOW.
But no matter how experienced I am when I do decide to go. I don't want some instructor who's just going shrug off any potential problems I point out, toss me in, and then dissapear.
NJDiver, thats a belief that was handed down from diver to diver over time with no factual basis for it, resulting in instructors teaching this as a common practice to follow.
Recent research has suggested that, for multiple dives within certain ranges of depths, it might make no difference whether you do your deep dive first or last.
International experts have determined the prohibition of reverse dive profiles by recreational training organizations within the no-decompression dive limits under 40m or 130ft cannot be traced to any definite diving experience that indicates an increased risk of DCS.
Ryan Stone
IDCS
http://www.scubadiving.com/training/instruction/deepdive2.shtml
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