The Great local dive shop vs. online debate

[pediatron]

I live in Reno. There are only 3 dive shops here. IMHO they all suck. Besides being ovepriced they all bad mouth the equipment they don't carry. I was set to buy online. I even approached them with this info to see if I could deal with them. After all I would much rather have a good relationship with a local store. I grew tired of their arrogance. I tried a shop in Sacrament (2 hours away) as they also sell on line. The brands I picked were authorized to be sold on line as I wanted a manufactures warranty. The shop in Sacrament was great. They didn’t have some of the brands I wanted but what impressed me was they never said a bad thing about them, even complemented them. I ended up buying 2 sets (one for the wife) of the brands that I couldn’t get online. I spent about $600 more than I planned onine but I got better equipment. I know I was limiting my selection by buying online but I refused to buy in Reno. I worked with the owner and the sales manager both great. They went over the pros and cons of all the equipment. The even hooked the regs and octos up for me to try out. I spent over $3000 there and still saved about a $1000 from the local store that I did my owc in. I had the equipment for the ow dives not the pool and there was never a problem. Probably due to the fact the instructor was an independent. The local shop wanted about $70 each for the rentals. They didn't seem to care when I told them I wouldn't need anything but tanks and weights. I would rather pay a little more for a good relationship but $1000 more and an attitude on top of that just isn’t worth it.

 

[Curly]

I have two "home" LDSs, and then two others that I use in areas that I visit -- one up north, and one down south. The "others" are used mostly for charters, although I've made some equipment purchases at both. I got other gear and training through the primary "home" LDS, and bought my BC from an instructor there who was selling his before moving New Guinea. Bought reg, octo & computer online, as I could not justify the mark-up. Still rent thick suits from all three "northern" places, and buy all incidentals, training, etc., through them, and use them for service. I did not, however, tell them where I got the reg. And, from the look of things, it seems my big wetsuit purchase is going to low bidder.

So everyone's gonna hate me eventually.

 

[metridium]

MikeS wrote...
Right now there is a window of opportunity where you can buy equipment from online sellers that don’t subsidize services, and get air and the equipment served at prices based on subsidies from equipment sales.

I think that's a misperception. Online/telephone/mailorder sellers - at least the several that I use - all offer training, fills, service and other standard amenities onsite. Those things are still being subsidized; the costs are still there. They're just spread over exponentially more unit sales than at the LDS.

MikeS wrote...
Unfortunately this is only at the expense of the LDS and can’t last very long before the LDS goes out of business.

We tend to accept that the LDSs are taking a pounding on this, but now that I think about it, virtually all of the dive shops I visited years ago in my first gear search are still in business. The only exception was due to the death of the owner.

How about it, divers? How many LDSs have you seen go out of business the last five years or so?

 

[diveaway]

metridium once bubbled...

How about it, divers? How many LDSs have you seen go out of business the last five years or so?

All shops in the NJ/NY area are struggling, but for other not so funny reasons (9/11)

I think online sales are only one piece of the puzzle. Quality of service and training, macro-economics (see above) and more educated consumers (scubaboard!) play probably an even bigger role.

Ray

 

[Welshman]

There have been so many threads on this subject. I think what is clear is that any LDS that tries to pretend the internet and on line purchasing doesn't exist will be out of business some time soon. It's there and it's not going to go away. Tm530 is IMHO right in his analysis and I hope Mike Ferrara gets his wish of being able to charge a sensible amount for teaching. I would feel more comfortable paying sensible money for tuition that could save my life.

 

[Bishop]

Hey, if you are going to do it right you might as well REALLY do it right.

I'm going to be taking my DIRF class this weekend and I don't have all of the stuff needed for the class. So, I walk into the shop that is hosting the classroom section of the class to pick up some stuff I know I'm going to need. I immediately meet the owner as that he introduces himself after I ask about the DIRF class this upcoming weekend. I asked him if he had gear to rent for this weekend that I could use as that my regulators won't be here yet.

Big Mistake #1(tm).

Well, he asks me what I ordered and I told him - Apeks.

Big Mistake #2(tm).

He then asks me where I ordered them from and I replied "Diveinn".

Big Mistake #3(tm).

Now I listen to him argue with me about why I should have gotten Scubapro. Oh, I almost forgot - he did say all of you GUE/DIR divers are moving away from Apeks and going back to Scubapro. Let me know when you are selling it, I might need another setup for my girlfriend.

I told him that for $350 I have a really nice setup for the diving I'm going to be doing. I take $350 to Scubapro and I get 3/4 a setup. Don't get me wrong. I did the research - months of it. I know I'm not going to get free parts when I need my regulators serviced. I also know that to keep your SP warrenty valid you have to do an annual ($90-$120) every year whether you need it or not just so you can get your free parts.

And God forbid I go to an online store. Especially, if it isn't American. This rhetoric is as bad as the "If you are a Patriot, you should buy an American car." I am not stealing from an LDS if I choose to shop somewhere else. I'm sorry you need your margins to be so high. I didn't do it. Be pissed at the online guys.

Maybe we don't need a dive shop on every corner then. Maybe we need some of them to go out of business. It is about supply and demand. The reason I can get an airfill for $4 is because there is an oversupply of air-stations. As an LDS I could charge more for training and service when some of the crappy ones fail - and as they should.

I know I've done it good here. I've been lurking long enough and I guess this is as a good of way for you all to get to know me. I have a lot more arguement in me but before I go further I'll invite replies. And then when I reply I'll elaborate on some of my arguements that I just threw out there.

(Full Disclosure: I tried on a hood at the above mentioned LDS and I liked it so instead of going out and getting the cheapest one I could find I bought the one there. I also bought some other gear for a grand total of $150 - even though he pissed me off. I didn't buy the $75 Halcyon lift bag I wanted and I will go get a $40 generic at some other store though.)

 

[TCDiver1]

Wyno once bubbled...
I want to get certified, after Reading this discussion about equipment and getting certified from your LDS, I wanted to know how much should getting certified cost without equipment? The LDS I’m looking at will cost me $400. That includes equipment for your OW-certification.

In our area it will cost you anywhere from 250 to 350 to get your OW cert. for class sizes in the 6 to 8 range. The stores i work through offer only all inclusive pricing, as in, no hidden charges that sneek up on you. Ask the LDS if the 400 will get you your OW card with no other additional charges.

Try to talk to the instructor who is teaching the class & get a feel for if your comfortable with him or her. Find out how many hours are normally spent on the class & how many other students will be in class with you. In our area 400 bucks would get you private lessons, one on one with the instructor, but it's different in every area. IMO approx. 40 hours or more should be spent with most OW students. It takes more time the larger the class is.

 

[Aquamore]

........yes I agree with Beachbum (I seem to remember the warnings in 1969 when I first started my SCUBA training),

"BEWARE ONLINE SELLERS for they are devil worshippers." They also said, the earth is actually flat, and if man was meant to buy online he would have an internet connection at every deco stop so that he could plug his dive computer into it.

Thus spake Neptune! (He must have been stung badly by some e-fraud with his credit card)?


Aquamore
My Motto, "Get the best you can the cheapest way possible."

 

[MikeFerrara]

As an LDS, I agree. Some of us should go out of business. Diving has become way to accessible and easy. There are too many people diving who shouldn't be and too many people teaching who shouldn't be. It is too inexpensive both in money and effort, therefore it is not respected enough. Divers don't get the right equipment or skills and make a mess out of every dive site wether reef or quarry. I for one get tired of having Rodale readers who shop on line parade around thinking that they know something obout diving.

A good shop can be a bargin at twice the price. If our customers (the regular divers) figure the cost of their purchases and consider the free drysuit rentals ($35), free reg use when needed ($15) free nitrox fills (10 - 15), Information rescourse (from someone who actually dives), free help setting up equipment and working out problems, The little repairs we do at the dive site at no charge and so on and so on...not only have they saved money as compared to what they would have gotten on the net but if I charged for all this most they just plain could not afford it! If we put a dollar value on these things it would indeed be an impressive figure. Since I don't get paid for these services I provide them to those I choose.

Divers take DIRF and are amazed and frustrate by skills like hovering, proper finning technique, backwards kicks, hello turns, horizantal ascents and descents, air sharing and mask replacement while hovering. Our divers have access to coaching in these techniques 7 days a week and usually for free. Maybe I should charge for a DIRF every weekend. Most divers wouldn't know a real bargin if it crawled inside their wet suit.

Bring it on, I'll go back and forth with you.

 

[Dee]

...Let's keep this little discussion friendly and respectful, shall we?

Dee
Regulator