The changing Scuba Industry

[The Chairman]

DRIS links to SB from their website.

DRIS is an awesome exception to the rule... There are a few. They've learned how to use SB and don't mind supporting us. They are great.

Aren't the adds pay per click?

Some are... if you see that the ad is from Google, then it's a click through. Our ROS (Run of Site) ads are monthly or by impressions. But please, one of the things our advertisers want is you to click on their ads and see what they have to offer. Don't be shy in that regard. Without them, we'll be gone.

Which adds? The ones for lawn tractors and high heel shoes?

Someone's been shopping for lawn tractors and high heel shoes lately!

 

[LordElrond]

I'm not in the industry, but since my kids are "millenials" (currently nearing their 30s) I noticed that they just aren't into owning things. They would rather "do" things. I've seen this with the 20s at work, too. Some of them see "things" as something that takes up space when it isn't being used.

You aren't the only one that's noticed this. Check this:
Millennials: Forget material things, help us take selfies

This seems to mean that gear "ownership" could decline at the same time that the number of "divers" stays stead or even increases. Think about those who choose renting over home ownership (or can't afford a house), or the popularity of car sharing, whether its Car2Go or Uber.

The definition of "diver" might have to change. Not sure how to do that and maintain safety standards. Diving takes training, a lot more than windsurfing, or kayaking, or fishing, or (most) hiking.

I have NO idea how this will play out. Maybe we'll see a decline of mid-high rec and tech diving, and just more and more "resort course", where diving will be a one time experience, or only as part of a vacation. Like you were saying, dive experience in the morning, fishing or windsurfing in the afternoon.

Maybe instead of people going on vacation in order to dive, they'll go on vacation and diving will just be one of the things they happen to do.

I've already seen the diving industry go from "ex Navy macho diver" instructors (70s/80s) to where we are today.

Threads about "standards slipping" are an almost weekly thing here.

I see the same thing on the ham radio forums: "the hobby has gone to hell since they stopped requiring morse code at 100 words per minute and building a radio from tubes, bobby pins, spit and gumption". The hobby hasn't gone downhill, it's just *changed* to digital modes, moon bounce, microwave and software defined radios. It changed in a way that the "old guard" just couldn't see coming because it was so different from their experience.

I'm currently in the video game industry. We're still sorting out what to do now that people don't want to buy a disk. They want to rent or buy games as a service, the experience, not own a piece of plastic. As a stepping stone, we let them buy a "disk" online and download it. Some companies are looking at pure game online "rental" markets, or "all you can play" for some $/month.

Look at NetFlix - remember when they mailed DVDs? Now you pay a monthly price for all you can watch.

I have no idea what the similar change is going to be for diving. This sport requires equipment and training. One of those has to be purchased, one doesn't. Maybe that's the market shift?

Diving isn't going downhill, it's just changing in a way that no one has quite figured out yet. As the "old guard" it's going to be hard for us to figure this out, especially if we see this as a "decline" instead of a "change".

This opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it.

This^

I'm 25, university student, and, no matter how much I hate it, this is the simple and pure truth for the vast majority of my generation. Fewer and fewer people want to commit to something that require long term commitment, choosing instead to buy "experiences" as you call it, and this trend will increase.
I can chime in relating to this the experience of my 18 yo brother and his friends: they spend a TON of money, but they own nothing, choosing instead to use their disposable money to eat out in restaurants, short trips, tables in exclusive night clubs and so on whereas I don't buy any service, I try to buy only (nice and durable) stuff.

I think I'm born in the 50s and kept in a freezer till the 90s since I represent the dinosaurs everyone talked about up here: I started diving (obviously), I'm an avid skier and I have a shiny new ham license.

I was fascinated from underwater breathing and exploring for years, since I took a Bubblemaker "course" when I was a kid, and last year I took my open water cert, with the intent of making diving my "summer" hobby, so going diving on weekends and bringing along my gear to dive during my vacations, exactly as I ski (a dozen ski days and a week on snow a year)

About dive shops, I have experience only with my instructor's one, a very small shop catering to tech divers that he runs aside from its day job. I walked in knowing what to expect, I did my homework before, and I was not disappointed. I paid dearly for my course (Rec1) and received the value that I expected. I bought nothing for my course, not even the usual mask fins and booties and felt no pressure about buying, received a good instruction and so, apart from future instruction that is guaranteed work for him, when I decide to buy an item of a brand that he carries I first tell him the price I'm willing to pay. I accept paying 10-15% more than online to support his brick and mortar shop... unfortunately sometimes he prefers to lose the sale.
To help retain divers, in principle I think "local" instructors, outside of holiday destinations, should be independent from sales and shops to ensure quality, and introduce the newly certified in the local environment of similar divers.

 

[Wookie]

Tell us more about the demographic you want or need (not just your perfect fantasy customer). Are they doing on-the-fly light deco., deep diving on air, expert navigators, what? Are you just after more self-sufficient, low maintenance seasoned intermediate recreational divers?

Or is this about dive boats that don't have ensuite heads?

Richard.

My fantasy customer would be the one who says "take me diving someplace no one has ever been". My wet dream would be someone who says "OK, maybe not someplace no one has ever been, but someplace where very few have ever been". Here is the problem with that. It's not a guaranteed experience. Folks our age seem to be working hard, and want a vacation where they will see a (insert species here), and if they don't, their trip is "ruined". How many trip reports have we seen where someone said "Went to Galapagos, saw millions of schooling hammerheads, but no whale sharks showed up, my trip was ruined", or "Went to Raja Ampat, saw tens to hundreds of strange exotic creatures from some fantasy book, but didn't see a Nautilus, so the trip was a bust."

The hardest job I had was to manage the expectations of my customers. No ensuite heads was an issue, but the guy who went to Tortugas with us last year and didn't see a turtle complained vociferously. Everyone else saw turtles (multiple), but he didn't see one, and he became a problem. I personally think that Dry Tortugas is the best diving in the Caribbean, including Cuba. Cuba has some awesome reefs, but you have to keep your eyes peeled to see predator fish like grouper/snapper. Sharks are almost non-existent where we were, and the reason is because the offshore shelf is so narrow on the north side. The habitat just isn't there. Gardens of the Queen has a ton of flats and mangroves and that's why it is so well known for it's critters.

And don't get me wrong. My customer still exists. You all are out there in all of your glory. But your (our) population is dropping. There are a couple of active "selling all of my gear" threads right now, and one or two "I'm (insert age here), is it too late to start?" threads. But where I chose to ply my trade is open ocean. It's a rough ride out and a rougher ride home. We're too old to get tossed around and bonked by the ladder. I had to stuff a year into a 3 month season. And the Tortugas was over-served with two 100 foot liveaboards carrying 20+ pax, two 12 packs, and numerous 6 packs. The industry is overserved. There is more capacity than there are divers to use the capacity. I got top dollar for the Spree. I am not bitter, only sad. I miss her like you can't imagine, but I expect that a reduction in 24 passengers worth of capacity will make the remainder stronger. That's a good thing.

 

[diver0008]

If the shop that sells for $145 is willing to match price to $125, my question is: Why don't they sell at $125 all the time?

It's a free market. People have the freedom to seek as much or as little profit as they want. They are also free to make exceptions and take losses. Not everyone sells things at the same price, nor purchase them, retailers included. A retailer that buy $1 million from a supplier will in most cases get better pricing than the retailer who buys $10 thousand, thereby allowing them to sell at lower unit costs for the same profit margin, and conversely affecting the lower volume purchaser; economies of scale. Sales contracts are highly variable. Costco is a great study on the issue from both sides.

For the sake of simplicity, the rule has generally been to sell at the maximum price that the market will bear. Which ideally places the power with the consumer dictating to the market. If the guy selling at $145 can, he will. And why not. If his sales drop due to competition he will adjust, which is where price matching comes in; adjust when necessary. Some manufacturers will regulate pricing, often with minimum, MSRP, or fixed reseller pricing. Look at prices on mobile phones for example. The prices for the phones themselves hardly vary, large corporations like clear and stiff regulations, so retailers use incentives to attract customers. A strategy in a competitive market.

I hope this answers your question.

 

[Dish]

DRIS links to SB from their website. That's how I found you!

@Marie13 , my experience was actually the inverse. I learned of DRIS from positive posts by SB members. Word of mouth (now interwebs) is alive and well. Positive comments still require satisfied customers.

 

[Marie13]

And I learned about DRIS from a diving friend in another state who has been a satisfied customer for a long time. So, word of mouth!

 

[Wookie]

Well, I learned from DRIS on ScubaBoard and then met Mike at any number of trade shows. The only item I tried to buy from him was not in stock and I needed it next day, but that doesn't mean I won't try again.

 

[The Chairman]

Here is the problem with that. It's not a guaranteed experience.

I disagree. I had that happen when I was on the Rocio del Mar in the Sea of Cortes. They dropped us on several dives where no one had been. I loved the sand as much as I enjoyed the reefs. You have to be in that explorer mind set.

EDIT=> My one semi-disappointment on the Spree was that the diving in the Dry Tortugas was soooooo similar to the diving in Key Largo. But hey, I was sick and didn't feel like I had missed much by not diving. On the other hand, when I was diving in the Philippines, I partially tore my Achilles tendon on the second day. I was in a lot of PAIN, but I pushed myself as much as I could to continue diving. When we were in Cayman Brac, it became obvious that it was just more "Keys Diving", so I didn't do a single dive due to that tendon. Hell, I know I've been diving since 1969, and some of my dives seem 'common'. I think that's why I'm drawn to caves and seeing places that less than 1% of divers get to see.

 

[diver0008]

I disagree...

Chairman of the Goat. What a maroon.

 

[Wookie]

I disagree. I had that happen when I was on the Rocio del Mar in the Sea of Cortes. They dropped us on several dives where no one had been. I loved the sand as much as I enjoyed the reefs. You have to be in that explorer mind set.

You and I do. Seems that most folks our age have this restriction on fun called "jobs", so when they want to go diving they take "vacation". They get expectations all worked up in their heads of what the "vacation" is supposed to be. and if the vacation doesn't live up to the expectations, they are disappointed.

Now, you and I can go dive the sand and be very happy with the garden eels and the snake eels and the crabs and the......, but if you go to the Dry Tortugas and don't see a turtle, or you go to the Sea of Cortez and don't see a gray whale, well, some folks didn't get their money's worth.