The changing Scuba Industry

[BRT]

For some reason it doesn't work that way here. We have a Sears and a Goodyear Franchise. Neither will sell me Toyos. I happily purchase them for far below what a BF Goodrich or Goodyear Wrangler would cost, shipping is free, and the Goodyear franchise will mount and balance 4 (and dispose of the old ones) for $150, or I can use the auto hobby shop on base to mount and balance my own. I prefer the Goodyear shop because they are pros.

I would happily buy from them if they would get online and get me the damn Toyos.

Bring em to us. We will mount and balance them and dispose of the old ones for about $80. I've got to raise our rates!

 

[diver0008]

A small mom and pop retailer doesn't have the means to check the price on every item they sell every day against the entire online marketplace.

They must, if they intend to compete. Otherwise they must add value.

 

[mdb]

Apparently you guys aren't comprehending so if you can't understand the concept from this post, it will be my last post on the subject.

If the shop is selling a pair of DiveRite XT's with a price tag of $145 JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, but a google search reveals XYZ dive shop on the other side of the country has them on sale for $125 and they willingly match that price, how in the world are they screwing their customers? There are signs plastered all over the shop. "We want your business. We'll match anyone's price."

I take it you guys simply don't understand how the internet has affected the small mom and pop retailers. The customer has the ability to quickly check everyone's prices from their phone and do business with them. A small mom and pop retailer doesn't have the means to check the price on every item they sell every day against the entire online marketplace.

BTW, You guys should stop shopping at Leisure Pro and DRIS, because they have a price match policy.

Low Price Guarantee - Dive Right in Scuba

BestPriceGuarantee | LeisurePro.com

Not only do they have a price match policy, if you contact them directly on the phone
the price is even lower.

I hope this is your last post on the subject.

 

[BRT]

Apparently you guys aren't comprehending so if you can't understand the concept from this post, it will be my last post on the subject.

If the shop is selling a pair of DiveRite XT's with a price tag of $145 JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, but a google search reveals XYZ dive shop on the other side of the country has them on sale for $125 and they willingly match that price, how in the world are they screwing their customers? There are signs plastered all over the shop. "We want your business. We'll match anyone's price."

I take it you guys simply don't understand how the internet has affected the small mom and pop retailers. The customer has the ability to quickly check everyone's prices from their phone and do business with them. A small mom and pop retailer doesn't have the means to check the price on every item they sell every day against the entire online marketplace.

BTW, You guys should stop shopping at Leisure Pro and DRIS, because they have a price match policy.

Low Price Guarantee - Dive Right in Scuba

BestPriceGuarantee | LeisurePro.com

If DRIS has the best combo of price and service I will buy from them. If Leisurepro has that best combo I'll buy from them. If it is someone else I'll buy from them. I'm not going to punish the price/service leader by buying from someone else. A place I bought most of our fasteners from just sold to a bigger company. The store had always had prices that were either very competitive with or cheaper then other sources and they had good stock. In addition I could go on line and check their prices and stock and make my orders. The new owners want me to call them up and they are happy to match prices I get elsewhere but if I just place an order I get screwed. Our business now goes elsewhere.

I am a Mom and Pop retailer. Have been since 1982. I always charge more for what I have in stock than you can buy it on the internet. We provide the service of helping you know what will work for you. We also try to have the odd parts in stock that can get you going again. If you take advantage of our knowledge and go buy the stuff elsewhere too many times you won't get service from us. However if you bring us tires you found on the internet on your own we are glad to take your money and mount and balance them. I try to tell those customers what similar tires would have cost from us. Usually the difference is the sales tax. We are competitive on tires and have good sources. If you price tires from me and decide to buy them on the internet I'm happy to take your money for mounting and balancing but you can deal with the internet for warranties. Many times I have customers tell me what they can save by buying the tires on the internet and ask me to match that. No. Why would I treat a tightwad better than I treat the people who support me by buying at my regular (very reasonable) prices?

 

[Schwob]

Sure, it makes sense if you're the shop. You capture the sale at the highest profit you can.

But, I agree with @BRT. I generally don't patronize price-matching, either. I would rather patronize the place that offers the low price without being "forced" to. By keeping them in business, I will continue to have low prices I can take advantage of. If I just use them to brow beat my local place to price match then all I'm doing is helping put the low price place out of business. And once they're gone, there's no more price matching and I'm stuck paying full retail or whatever my local shop wants to charge.

That said, there is a balancing act between that and being willing to pay extra to buy stuff from my local shop to help make sure they stay around, too.

In the end, my process is something like "if the LDS has it marked for up to 20% higher, I'll buy it at the LDS. But, if they are higher than that, I buy it from the online place. But, I don't ask the LDS to price match." As BRT said, that is just supporting their policy of charging the maximum amount that they can.



It may be some of that, but I suspect it's also partly a general old school sentiment that print ads are worth "more" than Internet eyeballs. Combined with antipathy from the print media people towards online media.

I also suspect that there may be SOME merit to the notion that print ads are worth more than Internet eyeballs. If I'm reading a magazine and I have some interest in liveaboards and I see an ad for a liveaboard, it's not so easy to flip immediately to more info about many liveaboards, so I am more likely to really read the one ad I happen to see. But, if I'm online and something (say, an ad on a SB sidebar) sparks my interest in liveaboards, I'm much less likely to really absorb an ad about a particular liveaboard. Instead, I'm probably going to do a Google search for liveaboards and then read reviews and forum posts.

As a consumer, I genuinely feel like I'm much less influenced by online ads than by print ads on the same subjects.

As a business person, if I were trying to market a product or service, I would consider print ads, but for online marketing I would be much more inclined to engage in social media efforts and try to cultivate key influencers. If I wanted to sell BCDs, I would probably not run an ad campaign on SB. Instead, I would do some research to identify people on SB who are well respected and very active on SB and then approach them privately with a goal of getting them to use my BCD and then post good things about it.

I seem to recall some vendor (I can't even remember what the product was) a year so ago who openly solicited people to enlist in their Ambassador program. I would probably do something like that, except not be blatantly open about it. I think that backfired. When it's common knowledge that the manufacturer is doing that, suddenly every positive review of their product becomes suspect.

So, I wouldn't necessarily take it personally. Maybe you, too, are just being a little too old school in your thinking and your approach to generating revenue from SB. I think online advertising has evolved a fair bit from where it was 10 years ago.

I guess it would be naive to think it wouldn't be happening here... but the shills at least would hear about it sooner or later...

 

[redacted]

I take it you guys simply don't understand how the internet has affected the small mom and pop retailers. The customer has the ability to quickly check everyone's prices from their phone and do business with them. A small mom and pop retailer doesn't have the means to check the price on every item they sell every day against the entire online marketplace.

It is quite easy for mom or pop to run a price check on anything they sell. All they need do is post a price match policy and let all their customers do the work.

 

[Schwob]

Michael... the divers have found us but the industry sees us as an annoyance. A full page ad in any magazine for one month would pay for our biggest ad for a year. More people visit ScubaBoard in a week than subscribe monthly to any magazine. We have more visitors per month than the sum of all the magazine subscriptions. Like @Wookie, I have to ask : Where are they? Why aren't they advertising? My guess is that I'm not a part of their 'Good ol' Boys club', so they won't use me. It sucks. I've got the divers, but not the advertisers.

Asking from a point of ignorance:
Aren't the adds pay per click?

 

[Marie13]

Michael... the divers have found us but the industry sees us as an annoyance. A full page ad in any magazine for one month would pay for our biggest ad for a year. More people visit ScubaBoard in a week than subscribe monthly to any magazine. We have more visitors per month than the sum of all the magazine subscriptions. Like @Wookie, I have to ask : Where are they? Why aren't they advertising? My guess is that I'm not a part of their 'Good ol' Boys club', so they won't use me. It sucks. I've got the divers, but not the advertisers.

DRIS links to SB from their website. That's how I found you!

 

[KeithG]

Asking from a point of ignorance:
Aren't the adds pay per click?

Which adds? The ones for lawn tractors and high heel shoes?

 

[admikar]

That's a silly assumption. It's called adapting to compete against the online warehouses that have little overhead.

Most small retailers in any industry have had to adapt and change to stay competitive. The ones that don't usually go out of business.

But it's the new culture. People go into the shop to see and touch that reg or dc and then go buy it online to save 10%.

So doesn't it make sense to just match that price for those who ask and capture the sale right there.

I, and some others, are willing to pay a premium to handle gear in person, talk to a person face to face, have a place to obtain service and/or deal with problems. I buy some of my equipment online also.

No dive shop I know of is raking in the money. Some engage in aggressive marketing practices I find distasteful, but most are small businesses trying to keep their doors open, their bills paid and their staff employed. Perhaps they could have done other things to maintain or expand their sales, but most are either in the business because they love diving, or they got downsized out of corp America when middle aged and thought they could take their saving and run a shop based on their hobby. Most are not skilled retailers, and most are *very* capital constrained.

Offers to meet online pricing is part of their effort to delay the day they turn off the lights.

Tobin

Don't get me wrong, I do believe that LDS has its place. I too, go to my LDS and buy stuff, and pay their prices for the privilege of talking to someone more experienced than myself. But, there is a limit for that.

Sure, it makes sense if you're the shop. You capture the sale at the highest profit you can.

But, I agree with @BRT. I generally don't patronize price-matching, either. I would rather patronize the place that offers the low price without being "forced" to. By keeping them in business, I will continue to have low prices I can take advantage of. If I just use them to brow beat my local place to price match then all I'm doing is helping put the low price place out of business. And once they're gone, there's no more price matching and I'm stuck paying full retail or whatever my local shop wants to charge.

That said, there is a balancing act between that and being willing to pay extra to buy stuff from my local shop to help make sure they stay around, too.

In the end, my process is something like "if the LDS has it marked for up to 20% higher, I'll buy it at the LDS. But, if they are higher than that, I buy it from the online place. But, I don't ask the LDS to price match." As BRT said, that is just supporting their policy of charging the maximum amount that they can.

^^^^ What he said

Apparently you guys aren't comprehending so if you can't understand the concept from this post, it will be my last post on the subject.

If the shop is selling a pair of DiveRite XT's with a price tag of $145 JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, but a google search reveals XYZ dive shop on the other side of the country has them on sale for $125 and they willingly match that price, how in the world are they screwing their customers? There are signs plastered all over the shop. "We want your business. We'll match anyone's price."

I take it you guys simply don't understand how the internet has affected the small mom and pop retailers. The customer has the ability to quickly check everyone's prices from their phone and do business with them. A small mom and pop retailer doesn't have the means to check the price on every item they sell every day against the entire online marketplace.

BTW, You guys should stop shopping at Leisure Pro and DRIS, because they have a price match policy.

Low Price Guarantee - Dive Right in Scuba

BestPriceGuarantee | LeisurePro.com

Apparently, you don't want to understand what we are saying. If the shop that sells for $145 is willing to match price to $125, my question is: Why don't they sell at $125 all the time? Like @BRT said, all they are doing is screwing loyal customers that trust that shop and do no do a search for lowest price.