Tears in my Force Fins

[happy-diver]

Considering the customer is sometimes shite someone should close this thread before we have an inundation
Imagine, you've slipped up facing court, jury of your own peers, making a guilt judgement, and what you owe

Rather than having to face that circus, I'd be involved in something far more reasonable, like going on the run

 

[DanBMW]

Seems kind of sh!ty that you are aware of what is causing the problem with your product (when it occurs), and have called it out as a manufacturing process issue...TWICE. In the post above, you mention it is related to moisture control and heat treatment, and earlier in the discussion you mention ratio of materials used in the manufacturing process, along with an issue related to personnel in the following quote:



You state this in the light of your ISO and IATF certifications:



But despite knowing of issues specifically germane to your manufacturing process and staff that causes a defect that you have known sbout, and instead of simply telling the customer to contact you for replacement, you gripe at them publicly for calling out your company's name.

In the past, I have read, with interest, your self-agrandizing posts here. But I have to say, that sometimes your attitude takes an unnecessary combative tone that is not far off from folks like Tobin George (DeepSeaSupply), Bruce Justinen (SeaSoft Scuba), and Corey Mearns (Light Monkey).

All four of you come across as so overly zealous of your success that you become argumentative when a failure rears its head, and instead of using the opportunity to set a positive example and promote good customer relations, you choose instead to gripe at the customer and doubledown by insisting how great your product(s) is/are.

And then you blame "inflation" for your company's woes. Perhaps the "serious decline" of our country that you are so sad about is contributed to by a general lack of accountability by business owners/manufacturers to their customers when their products have an issue.

-Z

I could not disagree with you more about DSS and Force. Both made very good products and always had their customer at heart. Both took care of problems immediately. Any successful business is tough and the two that you so unfairly criticized from your cheap seat had well made products and stood by them for many years. There's no reason for your criticism at this late stage.

 

[Zef]

I could not disagree with you more about DSS and Force. Both made very good products and always had their customer at heart. Both took care of problems immediately. Any successful business is tough and the two that you so unfairly criticized from your cheap seat had well made products and stood by them for many years. There's no reason for your criticism at this late stage.

No doubt, all the companies I mentioned had great designs which often turned into great products. But none of the owners that I mentioned could handle criticism without some kind of meltdown and could be found to crap on their customers when inquiring about issues with the product. While you might disagree, their rants are part of the ScubaBoard archives.

To have the owner of the company admit defect due to a manfucaturing process issue, as is the case with the OP of this discussion thread, and handle the matter like he has, such as calling out the customer for posting here, is fairly deplorable customer service...and as I mentioned, it is kinda a sh!tty attitude.

In my retirement, I am managing a bike shop. Customers ask all the time what I personally think of the brands of bicycles we sell, especially the e-bikes. I constantly state the following:
"In a perfect world, one buys a bike that doesn't have any issues. But we don't live in a perfect world, so th next best thing is a company that stands behind its product(s) and is easy to deal with when an issue arises. The brands we sell are especially noted for their exceptional customer service when we have brought anyting to their attention."

Warranting a product for one year if a defect occurs is acceptable, IF you as the manufacturer do not know the cause...if the cause is known or discovered such as is the case here, then a recall or replacement program of some sort should be implemented.

And as @happy-diver mentioned, I agree some customers are shite....but raving about one's product out of one side of ones mouth, while admitting to occasional manufacturing process issues out the otherside kind of negates the idea the OP is a shite customer...particularly when that customer has 4 pairs of the product and 3 have failed in the same fashion.

-Z

 

[Bob Evans]

I could not disagree with you more about DSS and Force. Both made very good products and always had their customer at heart. Both took care of problems immediately. Any successful business is tough and the two that you so unfairly criticized from your cheap seat had well made products and stood by them for many years. There's no reason for your criticism at this late stage.

Thank you, Dan. I got so depressed reading all this stuff. It seems this person has FFDS. I took a nap and wondered why there was so much Hate. These comments are worthless, and Susanne and I have worked super hard to make our customers happy. Production is great. At 75 years of age, I have seen it all and wish one a HAPPY LIFE. Go and enjoy my Force Fins.

 

[elgringoperdido]

After I saw that this thread had been bumped, I went to search for my original receipt for my force fins. I found it but unfortunately I it was not itemized. It was an old-fashioned hand-written receipt for a mask, fins, and snorkel. The total was $180. That was 25 years ago. June 2000. I'd guess that the cheap snorkel I bought was $20 or less. It was carried away long ago by a current. I still have the mask and it is my back-up mask that I keep in my trouser pocket when I dive with a dry suit or do any technical diving. I'd say it was probably 30 or less. That means that I paid about $130 for my force fins. They still work. They were my only fins for the first 13 or so years that I was diving. It wasn't until I got into technical diving that I got a new pair because my instructor insisted that they were not appropriate. I ended up getting some hard ScubaPro jetfins and that's what I use now, but for about five years the force fins became my son's main fins. Then I eventually got him a hard pair of Mares fins for diving. Still, they're in good shape. I keep them and use them for snorkeling from time to time. Absolutely no complaints. But I will say that the ScubaPro jets give me more propulsion. He was right about that.

 

[Bob Evans]

I logged thousands of dives working on underwater photographic and research projects in jet fins. That's why I made Force Fin. All fins work, but the metabolic cost is higher, and they are made counter to your natural muscular strength for kicking. The only valid studies I know on kicking and blood oxygen use show Force Fins are about 40% more efficient than Jet Fins kicking at constant speed over time. US Navy Study Efficiency of Best Fins. The US Navy asked me not to publish other companies' names. One was a vented fin and the other was the standard paddle fin. Every test subject believed they were getting more out of the other. That is because we equate resistance or power with propulsion, and that's the way water works.. Here is a picture of me diving with Scott Carpenter in my jet fins back in 1973, before I made Force Fins. Photo by mentor Bev Morgan.

 

[happy-diver]

And as @happy-diver mentioned, I agree some customers are shite....

I'm talking about you and all those other FFDS, that come on here demanding to be spoken to softly
Check the original post top of this thread, obviously telling stories, and got the appropriate response

Why did you not call us? You're a special customer. Our Material is Cast Polyurethane and nothing can glue them back together. Sad to hear of your problem. Best Wishes, Bob Evans

Hi Bob,

Mahalo for reaching out. To be honest, my emails, etc. not always answered.

And one wonders

Therein, the tone for the thread is set, for any other story telling bored moper to come in and pile on

No respect for these innovative people, nor grasp of any foibles they may have developed, over their

LIFETIME OF ACHIEVEMENTS


What a disgrace is the story telling bored moper


I have accumulated quite a few split and delaminated fins and I am the one that **** well split them

Whine ** whine ha ha haha and what do you get for your whining, hah ha hha ha sweet ********* all


So do our psychiatrists leave their profession without scars having dealt with a lifetime of customers
I know that mine didn't but then roles reversed, started to meet him for coffee to get him through it

Ha haha hahahha ahhhhaha hahha yha!