Question Teaching OW with backplate and wing from the very beginning ?

[Boarderguy]

I found a weight pocket on the bottom with 8lbs in it 2 days ago.

It happens.

The real question this brings up is did the diver notice before or after exciting the water and rinsing gear?

 

[The Chairman]

Having a weight belt and dump pouches increases the likelihood that you're accidentally going to drop weights.

This is a catch 22 for you?

This pocket from Dive Gear Express is pretty simple and robust...

I just dive a balanced rig most of the time.

 

[azstinger11]

rip cord to dump weights and now its actual name escapes me LOL)

If its zeagle then ripcord is the actual name lol

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

If its zeagle then ripcord is the actual name lol

Yes! Zeagle Ranger!

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Do you think dive shops like this?

when I look at the jacket style BCDs in my area (I had one, I nicknamed it the Chamber Express from the rip cord to dump weights and now its actual name escapes me LOL) I see excess fabric, more things to tear, weaker material. Contrast that to a quality wing that will last me my entire diving career and inexpensive webbing. Where's the money in that for dive shops?

There's a reason a less optimal solution is prevalent. Though this is detrimental to the tropical dive location where customers typically rent.

I’m not really sure dive shops intentionally pick jackets just because they wear out faster and they make more money on them. Many dive shops still have not seen a BP/W in the flesh believe it or not. Many still think it’s all a bunch of tech diver crap (yes they used those exact words).
My LDS has now finally come around to at least change their thinking and open their eyes, thanks to me. They were selling my plate and sold all 8 of them in a few weeks. All were sold off their website and went out if state. However, this opened their eyes to the reality that people are hungry for this stuff. My plate is a single tank recreational plate so no “tech diver crap” here. I didn’t see them selling eight jackets in a couple weeks over the internet.
We’re still going to try and get a few units set up complete and put them on display. But getting the best wings will be a challenge now, not only because of a wholesale issue but a supply issue. We’re also going to put out a few in rental and get a few instructors set up so students can see them in use.
This is what it will take. They would be happy to sell BP/W, after all a sale is a sale. But the problem is that the BP/W was so underground for so long that it became the domain of the Internet and had a cult following. The standard LDS kind if missed the bus in many respects by not embracing the concept from the start. Now trying to get wings and plates from their sources is tricky. They don’t know enough about them to know what to get to set up a few units.
I’m trying to help them.
How is an LDS supposed to compete with something like the DGX package?

 

[boulderjohn]

I’m not really sure dive shops intentionally pick jackets just because they wear out faster and they make more money on them. Many dive shops still have not seen a BP/W in the flesh believe it or not. Many still think it’s all a bunch of tech diver crap (yes they used those exact words).

Yep. I would bet that is the primary reason so many shops don't sell them.

When the shop I worked for offered technical dive training for the first time, with me as the instructor, the owner was convinced no one would buy that gear. He therefore did not stock any of it--not even a display model. If my students wanted to buy a BP/W, they would have to order it. That took weeks. In contrast, the students could get the same gear online in a couple days, so that is what they did. The owner told me that the gear sales I had promised were not happening, and he blamed me for a false promise. My students spent many thousands of dollars in tech gear, but they did not buy it through our shop because it took too long to order it. The shop owner's attitude was "See! I told you!"

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I’m not really sure dive shops intentionally pick jackets just because they wear out faster and they make more money on them. Many dive shops still have not seen a BP/W in the flesh believe it or not.

Oh, I believe that. I think many dive shops are poorly run.

Many still think it’s all a bunch of tech diver crap (yes they used those exact words).

Oh, I believe it. The funny thing is the most successful shops in my area serve both recreational/technical diving well. The others tend to be mills focusing on mask, fins, snorkel, and gloves sales, which are high margin items.

My LDS has now finally come around to at least change their thinking and open their eyes, thanks to me. They were selling my plate and sold all 8 of them in a few weeks. All were sold off their website and went out if state. However, this opened their eyes to the reality that people are hungry for this stuff. My plate is a single tank recreational plate so no “tech diver crap” here. I didn’t see them selling eight jackets in a couple weeks over the internet.
We’re still going to try and get a few units set up complete and put them on display. But getting the best wings will be a challenge now, not only because of a wholesale issue but a supply issue. We’re also going to put out a few in rental and get a few instructors set up so students can see them in use.
This is what it will take. They would be happy to sell BP/W, after all a sale is a sale. But the problem is that the BP/W was so underground for so long that it became the domain of the Internet and had a cult following. The standard LDS kind if missed the bus in many respects by not embracing the concept from the start. Now trying to get wings and plates from their sources is tricky. They don’t know enough about them to know what to get to set up a few units.
I’m trying to help them.

How is an LDS supposed to compete with something like the DGX package?

Same way they compete with internet sales? It is about relationships. Shops that I know that take good care of customers typically earn sales through them. There will always be some people that will get their questions asked at a shop and then go buy online.

The shop owner's attitude was "See! I told you!"

Hence my comment about poorly run shops.

 

[lowwall]

How is an LDS supposed to compete with something like the DGX package?

They could do it with HOG Edge stuff. Or source their own. Wings would be the only tricky part.

But that starts messing with the manufacturer kickback structures from their existing lines that most dealers depend on. It's got to be tough to be a dealer because the largest manufacturers are still pretending it's the 1980s and they can make the internet go away like they mostly did with mail order.

The last thing the big guys want is for the modular BP/W to take off. That's why when they do produce them, they come with premium prices and proprietary parts.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

They could do it with HOG Edge stuff. Or source their own. Wings would be the only tricky part.

But that starts messing with the manufacturer kickback structures from their existing lines that most dealers depend on. It's got to be tough to be a dealer because the largest manufacturers are still pretending it's the 1980s and they can make the internet go away like they mostly did with mail order.

The last thing the big guys want is for the modular BP/W to take off. That's why when they do produce them, they come with premium prices and proprietary parts.

Also companies like Apeks, Hollis, and others do offer BP/W setups.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

My LDS got bought out by a younger guy who is open to anything, and the old crusty 1980’s curmudgeon is gone, so they are a clean slate.
Some of the issue is buy-in. So like Halcyon for instance has a 5K buy-in, that’s how much they want you to spend in order to become a dealer.
The LDS are Johnson Outdoors dealers (scubapro) Aqualung/Apeks, and Huish. They could get in something like Hog-Edge and maybe even Diverite which would be great! But there would be a buy in. They don’t sell enough stuff to be very high on the aggregate sales ladder with the main brands so that’s not really the issue. Their fear is that nobody will want it and it will hang on the wall. I keep telling them that with the proper sales techniques they will sell. They will also sell if students see instructors using them. It’s like trying to tell a kid jumping off the high dive for the first time that it will be fine, they won’t get hurt.
I mentioned Oxycheq too because of the wings but they have a buy-in also, although it’s no where near what Halcyon wants.
Scubapro has that very expensive moulded new backplate that’s super high dollar and that thing scares them. I don’t know what Scubapro’s policy is to get one unit into the store to see it and test customer reactions.
This area is really green and kind of back woods with the whole BP/W concept so I have to be careful and not push too hard or I’m afraid they will get spooked and clam up.
In the PNW Seattle area there is a much bigger tech scene which is all but nonexistant here in little old Norcal. It’s not even Monterey which has a tech scene, but not here. So all sales will be to recreational single tank divers. It’s going to take finesse and patience.