Teaching contradictions: differing dive training philosophies

[DCBC]

It seems to me that making students do a CESA on every ascent is training students to go to the "bolt to the surface" response as a first choice. Maybe that was reasonable in the days of J-valves that could prove to be in the wrong position, but it is not reasonable now.

It has been my experience that buddy teams of basic divers are seldom found within touching distance at all times. This can be complicated by poor visibility or by diving with an underwater photographer; you turn around and he's gone...
:uwphotographer:

I don't have your experience, DCBC, but I have over a thousand dives in many parts of the world. I have YET to see anybody have to do a CESA. I have yet to see anybody completely out of gas, including tourist divers -- low, yes, and they signal the DM and share, but not OUT. This is true in warm water, and in cold water.

As you're aware, an emergency ascent can be required anytime you have a problem and your buddy isn't visible (or too far or deep to be a viable option). It can be needed as a result of equipment malfunction (regardless of how much gas is in the cylinder). I have previously related my experiences of OOA (both experienced by me and that I've witnessed), so the fact that you haven't experienced it yourself doesn't make the skill something that's unnecessary and shouldn't be taught. A good number of diver certification agencies require CESA as a requirement for certification. Moreover that this skill be 'mastered.' To do so usually requires a number of repetitions.

I think one of the hardest things we run into in training divers is to extinguish the immediate rush to the surface as a response to problems. The last thing on earth I want to do is train it INTO somebody.

For me, it has become a huge student confidence builder. Knowing that you're diving within a 'safe diving envelope of the surface' isn't a bad thing. I don't experience the same problems that you've described. My students know that they can make the surface and because of this, they will first look for their Buddy. There is no reason to react by streaking to the surface. Being able to pause and think is the key to surviving any diving emergency. In this case, the advantage is in knowing you can make the surface. The training also involves the need for the student to stop at his safety stop on each dive. The student knows that they must make a 'controlled ascent.' This too is a vital factor in emergency ascent training and requires a certain frame-of-mind. For this to be ingrained, it can't be accomplished with one ascent. How can mastery be achieved with one attempt?

 

[Peter Guy]

DCBC, thank you for your thoughtful post regarding the need for agencies to constantly review their standards to make sure that what they are requiring is best for the student.

DCBC, I do have a question regarding your statement that all your students do a CESA to the safety stop on all but their first dive. I really wonder if you aren't instilling some bad habits here as I know you accept "the Rule of Primacy" -- that which you learn first you learn best.

IF all of your students do a CESA to the safety stop, do they do this all together with you just watching? If so, how do you "control" their ascent rate (after all, they ARE learning how to do this)? If not, how do they ever learn to do a controlled ascent together? And rather than doing a direct ascent to your safety stop depth, wouldn't a better ascent plan be to slow down your ascent, perhaps even doing intervening stops, as you get closer to the surface which is something you are NOT going to do while doing a CESA.

I'll admit I am not a believer in teaching the CESA as a part of recreational diving. I'm enough of a GUE/UTD person to believe we need to plan for one, but not necessarily, two "major" events. Since it takes two major errors to need to do a CESA, one should never be in that position. What are the two major errors? Well, the first is losing your own gas supply. Here, I'd rather take whatever time is spent on the CESA to continue to reinforce the idea of planning and monitoring one's own supply so that you never go OOA. But since that can happen, the response is your buddy/teammate. As long as you can reach a teammate, you have redundant gas which can easily, safely be shared thus negating the need for the CESA. And again, rather than take the time to teach the CESA, use the time to reinforce buddiness.

 

[TSandM]

It has been my experience that buddy teams of basic divers are seldom found within touching distance at all times. This can be complicated by poor visibility or by diving with an underwater photographer; you turn around and he's gone...

I don't think you correct that by teaching a CESA . . . you correct that by teaching buddy skills. As for the comment about photographers, here's what Diver0001 had to say about diving with two of them:

All in all, I found the dive quiet and controlled and it was fun for me to just hang there and try to keep communication open with two photographers who despite the varying degrees of the inevitable "moth to candle" positioning in the water that is part and parcel of diving with a camera never lost awareness of their own diving or the team.

Teaching a dubious emergency procedure to make up for poor planning, poor monitoring, poor situational awareness and poor buddy skills doesn't seem like the right answer to me.

 

[flots am]

. . . but I have over a thousand dives in many parts of the world. I have YET to see anybody have to do a CESA. I have yet to see anybody completely out of gas, including tourist divers -- low, yes, and they signal the DM and share, but not OUT. This is true in warm water, and in cold water.

As far as I can recall, I've seen OOA divers seven times. One guy went to the DM to share air, although the hand signals were quite unique and confusing. Two just quietly "went up" and ended the dive (the "C" in CESA). I've also seen an OOA diver who did neither, and just hung there with no air until someone noticed that he wasn't breathing, and two that panicked and bolted for the surface. One jumped in with an empty BC and the tank turned off.

Happily they were all OK although the two that bolted didn't ditch weights or inflate on the surface and were just lucky enough to be close enough to the boat to get help.

None of this would have been necessary if they had managed to look at the SPG now and then, and maintained a reasonable buddy distance. They were all on cruises except the last one.

flots.

 

[DCBC]

DCBC, thank you for your thoughtful post regarding the need for agencies to constantly review their standards to make sure that what they are requiring is best for the student.

You Sir are most welcome.

DCBC, I do have a question regarding your statement that all your students do a CESA to the safety stop on all but their first dive. I really wonder if you aren't instilling some bad habits here as I know you accept "the Rule of Primacy" -- that which you learn first you learn best.

On the first dive, I want to make the OW experience fun and progressive. The students are in shallow water and the first step is to establish neutral buoyancy just off the bottom. We go over various drills and we look at marine life. This of course is the reason why they wanted to learn in the first place and I use this time to ensure they are comfortable and relaxed in the ocean environment. We do a safety stop and return.

IF all of your students do a CESA to the safety stop, do they do this all together with you just watching? If so, how do you "control" their ascent rate (after all, they ARE learning how to do this)? If not, how do they ever learn to do a controlled ascent together? And rather than doing a direct ascent to your safety stop depth, wouldn't a better ascent plan be to slow down your ascent, perhaps even doing intervening stops, as you get closer to the surface which is something you are NOT going to do while doing a CESA.

We practice ascent control extensively in a 18' deep pool. The divers before they go to OW have demonstrated a controlled ascent drill (legs crossed) with the ability to level off 5 feet from the surface. Each student must demonstrated good buoyancy control with a full wet suit before they can be scheduled for the OW dive. I can't say that I've experiences any significant buoyancy control problems in OW.

As far as the CESA is concerned, each instructor/DM team usually do the emergency ascent with two Buddy pairs. I teach through a Club which has four active instructors and as many DMs. If the numbers aren't going to be there for a particular check-out, I stager the dates of the OW dives to accommodate the number of students we have, but numbers aren't usually a problem.

I'll admit I am not a believer in teaching the CESA as a part of recreational diving. I'm enough of a GUE/UTD person to believe we need to plan for one, but not necessarily, two "major" events. Since it takes two major errors to need to do a CESA, one should never be in that position. What are the two major errors? Well, the first is losing your own gas supply. Here, I'd rather take whatever time is spent on the CESA to continue to reinforce the idea of planning and monitoring one's own supply so that you never go OOA. But since that can happen, the response is your buddy/teammate. As long as you can reach a teammate, you have redundant gas which can easily, safely be shared thus negating the need for the CESA. And again, rather than take the time to teach the CESA, use the time to reinforce buddiness.

I suppose that for me, it's not necessary to "lose your own gas supply." I've experienced mechanical issues that resulted in an OOA scenario, even though gas was in the cylinder. I've seen instructors on a deep dive, run OOA. They had no concept of gas planning for the depth they were diving to. If Emergency Ascent training wasn't warranted, why do many agencies require it? They must feel that it's necessary (I'm not the only one that's sold on CESA ).

Peter, I do agree that it's not to be considered the primary response in the event of an OOA emergency. If the buddy is available (and he should be), that's the way to go. CESA (imo) is a valuable tool to have in a diver's skill book. As I've already mentioned, it can increase a new diver's confidence and help them establish a thinking attitude that will hold them in good sted, should any emergency occur underwater.

 

[boulderjohn]

In my OW instruction I emphasize monitoring gauges. I give a lesson on gas planning. I emphasize the buddy system. They know the lost buddy procedure. When it is time to do the CESA, I remind them that if they are diving as they have been instructed, going OOA should be pretty much unthinkable, but if the unthinkable happens, this is a safe way to solve that problem.

It seems to me that is better than not mentioning that safe thing they can do if the unthinkable happens, because if I didn't teach it and the unthinkable does happen, the only thing they will know is a panicked rush to the surface.

 

[DCBC]

I don't think you correct that by teaching a CESA . . . you correct that by teaching buddy skills. As for the comment about photographers, here's what Diver0001 had to say about diving with two of them:

Teaching a dubious emergency procedure to make up for poor planning, poor monitoring, poor situational awareness and poor buddy skills doesn't seem like the right answer to me.

I don't believe CESA is a "dubious emergency procedure," but I would enjoy reviewing any evidence that you have substantiating your comment. Teaching CESA does not mean that I don't teach good planning, good monitoring, good situational awareness and good Buddy skills. Why would you (or anyone else) feel that you are in a position to make such a high-handed judgment?

I must say that I find this a bit shocking. Doesn't PADI require CESA? Is "skill mastery" required? Is this determined by one demonstration in OW? If so, how is it being taught? Perhaps there is something that I'm missing and could benefit from. If not, are you saying that your students are not meeting standards and are being certified anyway? Please explain...

 

[Peter Guy]

DCBC, as you well know, "Mastery" is in the eye of the beholder. Assuming the student has demonstrated the horizontal and diagonal CESA well in the pool and then done at least one in OW with no issues, I'm willing to say that "mastery" has been demonstrated -- that is, the student has shown she can repeatedly, reliably and comfortably do the skill in the manner of an open water diver. And, quite frankly, that is a pretty low bar.

It is likely that the students I certify would NOT satisfy you or another instructor in their ability to do a CESA, OTOH, Iit is quite possible they would satisfy you in their ability to maintain stops, get and be neutral, be aware of their surroundings, flood/clear their mask, do an air share and be able to do a simple shore dive in 50 degree F water in 15 feet of viz. If they can do that, then, with my low bar, I'll sign their card.

 

[The Chairman]

The idea that the instructor must do 7-8 bounce dives during a dive seems to be important to you--you keep bringing it up over and over again.

It is important. First, it sets up an instructor to tell his students, to NOT follow their example in doing multiple bounce dives. No matter how you cut it, you are promoting bubble pumping and I feel that's wrong and dangerous.

Second, there are more important and viable solutions to a CESA. These are preventative measures and they should be stressed way more than doing a CESA. Think of it this way: the best CESA is the one you never have to make. Gas management, buddy skills and situational awareness are so much more safe and effective.

Finally, these multiple ascents (sometimes with multiple classes) puts instructors at risk. I have met quite a number of instructors that have been functionally disabled by this. Some now ask other instructors to do their CESAs for them, while others opt out of teaching and diving all together. If you taunt the bull often enough, you are going to get gored and it doesn't matter how skilled you are. A single off day, a semi-blocked Eustachian tube, a small bubble pumped past your lungs on descent or simply making a mistake because you are tired can all cause an injury TO THE INSTRUCTOR. Being an instructor does not diminish the physics one whit. It does not make you into a superman able to repel all risks with your decoder deco tables.

NASE requires students to master their skills in the pool where multiple ascents are OK before going into OW. OW diving skills are then done as needed or requested through out the dive. However, NASE wants the OW training dives to be as close as possible to the real thing and that means skills are done in context and there is only one ascent per dive. Doing multiple ascents during OW simply sets the wrong example for the students. I do not run through all the skills in OW that they have mastered in the pool. I want to see my students dive in a competent manner and that means that I am not leading them around by the nose doing a dog and pony show of skills out of context when I am in OW. This is their time to show me that they can plan and execute a dive while I observe.

Here's an example. I never give a warning for an out of air situation. At the end of a dive, I point to a buddy and signal to them that they are OOA. They have to find and signal to their buddy their situation. I then expect their buddy to respond appropriately, do a full five minute safety stop (they had better be checking their gas before and during) and then do a safe ascent. I'll reverse that on the subsequent dive. Mind you, they've already perfected their technique in the pool, so now it's their time to show their stuff. One dive: One ascent. No mixed signals about bounce dives. Their training and your example as an instructor follows the best practices for diving on every OW dive.

 

[DCBC]

DCBC, as you well know, "Mastery" is in the eye of the beholder.

Absolutely no reflection on you, or your program, but this has been the cry of many Instructors who teach below what is reasonable for the local diving conditions their students will be faced with.

...And, quite frankly, that is a pretty low bar.

What can be done to raise it? Should it be raised?

It is likely that the students I certify would NOT satisfy you or another instructor in their ability to do a CESA, OTOH, Iit is quite possible they would satisfy you in their ability to maintain stops, get and be neutral, be aware of their surroundings, flood/clear their mask, do an air share and be able to do a simple shore dive in 50 degree F water in 15 feet of viz. If they can do that, then, with my low bar, I'll sign their card.

Peter no Instructor has to satisfy me with how they teach their program. The important things are to satisfy the Client, the Agency and more importantly their conscience. If this can be done, that's all that's necessary.