Teaching contradictions: differing dive training philosophies

[The Chairman]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

This intense discussion has been split from the thread
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ba...psychology-diving-beyond-ones-training-6.html

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Unfortunately, our training has been at best, contradictory. Students are taught to never do bounce dives and yet instructors do multiple bounce dives right in front of them when they do CESAs. Students are taught to stay off the reef, except during training when kneeling is just fine. I could go on with the number of contradictions that are part and parcel of scuba instruction, but you know what I am talking about. Instructors often portray themselves as being above the rules because that's just what they have to do when they teach. It's wrong and it's down right confusing for the students. I know of one shop in Central Florida who does a lot of cert dives at Blue Spring. On the final OW dive, the instructor blesses his students as a sign that they are now certified OW divers. Then he, along with a couple of DMs turn on flash lights and take them down into the cave. They've been reported, but it's my understanding that this still is happening. How confusing that must be for their students? They now think it's appropriate to break the rules when it suits them. Shenanigans.

It's my biased opinion that ScubaBoard has done a lot to correct these contradictions but it's important that we continue to lead the charge. Discussions like this one cause people to think, perhaps to reconsider their actions, plans and practices. Think about it... the Warhammer Maneuver was invented here on ScubaBoard. At first, when we got together, only the true ScubaBoardian knew what we were referring to. Now, many people who are not even a part of ScubaBoard cringe at the mention of it. How did this happen? The Scuba world has become addicted to ScubaBoard. They read our humor as well as our insights into all things Scuba. Heck, part of the industry fears us for this very reason and they go out of their way to exclude us at every opportunity. Yet our collective passions are plastered all over the internet and we all effect change. More often the changes are personal. Sometimes the changes are within an agency, a manufacturer or even a dive shop. Every now and then the change affects the entire industry. That's what I want here. I want the industry to rethink how it teaches and to stop sustaining contradictions such as "dive like I say: not like I do".

So, in a way, we are all Scuba Ambassadors. We tell people more about us by the gear we use, the techniques we dive with and the chances we are willing to take. I think it's important that we all examine our diving and see if we are promoting safe diving or simply enabling risk takers. It starts with us demonstrating the antithesis of the attitude that Tammy has brought to our attention. Are we up to the challenge? Are YOU up to the challenge? I certainly hope so.

 

[Thalassamania]

Unfortunately, our training has been at best, contradictory. Students are taught to never do bounce dives and yet instructors do multiple bounce dives right in front of them when they do CESAs. Students are taught to stay off the reef, except during training when kneeling is just fine. I could go on with the number of contradictions that are part and parcel of scuba instruction, but you know what I am talking about. Instructors often portray themselves as being above the rules because that's just what they have to do when they teach. It's wrong and it's down right confusing for the students. I know of one shop in Central Florida who does a lot of cert dives at Blue Spring. On the final OW dive, the instructor blesses his students as a sign that they are now certified OW divers. Then he, along with a couple of DMs turn on flash lights and take them down into the cave. They've been reported, but it's my understanding that this still is happening. How confusing that must be for their students? They now think it's appropriate to break the rules when it suits them. Shenanigans.

I don't know about that. My understanding is that "bounce" dives shallower than 24 feet are not an issue, I know of few instructors who do CESAs from deeper than 20 feet; and there are also a fair number of instructors out there who have never taught that kneeling was "just fine." The whole fuss about teaching neutral reminds me of Columbus "discovering" America ... there were lots of folks already here. Ever hear Dick Greggory's routine about "discovering" some guy's Cadillac?

It's my biased opinion that ScubaBoard has done a lot to correct these contradictions but it's important that we continue to lead the charge. Discussions like this one cause people to think, perhaps to reconsider their actions, plans and practices. Think about it... the Warhammer Maneuver was invented here on ScubaBoard.

The maneuver was hardly invented on ScubaBoard (again, kinda like teaching neutral, I would point out the Hydrolab Habitat lacked any "facilities" so long before ScubaBoard ever existed, aquanauts were dancing the Warhammer).

At first, when we got together, only the true ScubaBoardian knew what we were referring to. Now, many people who are not even a part of ScubaBoard cringe at the mention of it. How did this happen? The Scuba world has become addicted to ScubaBoard. They read our humor as well as our insights into all things Scuba. Heck, part of the industry fears us for this very reason and they go out of their way to exclude us at every opportunity. Yet our collective passions are plastered all over the internet and we all effect change. More often the changes are personal. Sometimes the changes are within an agency, a manufacturer or even a dive shop. Every now and then the change affects the entire industry. That's what I want here. I want the industry to rethink how it teaches and to stop sustaining contradictions such as "dive like I say: not like I do".

I know of no such contradiction, I train as I dive and dive as I train, as do all of my colleagues.

So, in a way, we are all Scuba Ambassadors. We tell people more about us by the gear we use, the techniques we dive with and the chances we are willing to take. I think it's important that we all examine our diving and see if we are promoting safe diving or simply enabling risk takers. It starts with us demonstrating the antithesis of the attitude that Tammy has brought to our attention. Are we up to the challenge? Are YOU up to the challenge? I certainly hope so.

What challenge is this that you are referring to? Tammy started out, "This thread is being started as I am trying to understand what goes through the minds of people, when they decide they are going to go beyond their level, without appropriate training." I have yet to see the critical question here, actually addressed, "What is appropriate training?" in anything except the most general fashion with rather empty and impractical phrases like "diving under conditions that are the same or better than those experienced during training."

 

[The Chairman]

I don't know about that.

There's probably a lot you don't know.

My understanding is that "bounce" dives shallower than 24 feet are not an issue,

So you teach your students that they can do 8+ bounce dives at the end of their dives with impunity? In addition, you expect your students to understand that they must keep their 8+ bounce dives to a maximum of 24 ft??? You have failed to grasp the point: as an instructor you should be setting the best example. If you are telling your students to dive one way and you dive another, it only creates confusion. Dance around it all you want, but the better instructors set a great example for their students to follow. I'm surprised you disagree with this.

The maneuver was hardly invented on ScubaBoard

Dude. Are you just arguing just to argue? Obviously, the TERM Warhammer was coined right here on ScubaBoard. It was meant as a bit of humor to demonstrate that discussions such as these have actual value in that they reach a lot of people. Maybe they don't have any value to someone who thinks they know it all, but for the rest of us mere humans, it's a good thing.

I know of no such contradiction, I train as I dive and dive as I train, as do all of my colleagues.

So, you routinely do 8+ bounces on every dive? Wow. That's amazing. I teach and practice one descent and one ascent followed by a reasonable surface interval.

I have yet to see the critical question here, actually addressed, "What is appropriate training?"

Start your own thread then. This one is about exceeding your training. It's a valid question and does not need to be hijacked.

 

[redacted]

So, you routinely do 8+ bounces on every dive? Wow. That's amazing. I teach and practice one descent and one ascent followed by a reasonable surface interval. .

How do you conduct your CESA exercise?

 

[The Chairman]

How do you conduct your CESA exercise?

Horizontally: in the pool. No need to do them in OW. I would rather devote more time to buddy awareness and gas planning.

 

[DaleC]

I respect you Pete but I would have to disagree with that idea.

Confidence in the ability to CESA is one of the foundations of safe diving (IMO). At shallow depths the surface is one viable alternate air source, but only if one knows how to attain it safely. This knowledge should be married to experience to be effective.

The thing about having the capability to CESA is that people probably won't go to it as readily as those who don't possess it. In the former case, confidence in a safe exit allows the diver to focus on solving the problem in place. In the latter, the diver feels they have very few/no alternatives if their buddy is not immediately available and thus panics, bolts to the surface unsafely, possibly suffering an injury.

Focusing on buddy awareness and gas planning are admirable but the reality of rec diving is that 100% reliable buddies are not always the case. They are both preventative (good) but that is only half the equation - where's the training for dealing with the problem when it occurs. Ignoring CESA skills leaves the OW diver with fewer alternatives in such a situation.

Practicing a horizontal CESA does not replicate the experience in a way that creates true confidence - we know we are, in a sense, cheating because the real thing is deemed too risky. But, if it's risky, it should be practiced in a course instead of on ones own; post instruction.

The horizontal experience does not give the sensation of the need to control ones ascent rate either. which is fairly important to me. Personally I like to come up to just below the surface and then surface in a controlled manner so that I re-enforce the feeling that I have enough air and need not rush.

 

[redacted]

Horizontally: in the pool. No need to do them in OW. I would rather devote more time to buddy awareness and gas planning.

No, I mean vertically in the OW dives. As I recall, my instructor (PADI) had us (7 students) on a platform at about 25 ft. One at a time he escorted us to the surface as we demonstrated a CESA. Made sure we inflated our BC and were OK and then he descended to pick up the next student. Do you not do that in your classes? I thought that was (is) a PADI requirement.

 

[The Chairman]

No, I mean vertically in the OW dives.

I don't do them in OW. It's hard on the instructor and instills bad habits into the student. CESAs should be the last resort. The way they are being taught today, they have become the first option. Let's face it, kicking to the surface is pretty ingrained into our psyche already. We don't need to re-enforce our flight mechanism here. As for confidence, I would rather my students build confidence by having perfect trim and buoyancy. They'll hoover less, have control of their dive gas and thus avoid having to imitate an ICBM on it's way to the surface.

 

[The Chairman]

The horizontal experience does not give the sensation of the need to control ones ascent rate either.

In an out of air and out of buddy experience, you'll find that the student will be ascending as fast as they can in spite of all your training. How many horizontal CESAs do your students do in the pool? For that matter how many vertical CESAs do your students do in OW? If you think just one CESA makes them ready, you are being overly optimistic.

Again, I think it's important that as instructors, we set a great example on each and every dive. I would not have expected for this concept to be so foreign to some.

 

[redacted]

I do remember my vertical CESA exercise during training in 1994. I clearly remember how easy and unstressed it was. I thought it contributed measurably to my comfort UW. I'm just not sure I would have gotten the same thing with a horizontal exercise.

EDIT: After thinking about this a bit more, I am surprised that there are training agencies that do not require this exercise. After all, one of the greatest risks for divers is holding your breath while ascending. You can talk about it all you want but it is an easy mistake to make and quite natural as panic sets in. This exercise at least has divers demonstrate the critical skill of exhaling during a CESA.