Tank Valve Feathering in a Free-Flow

[Kevrumbo]

We need to get Kev and Foxfish into the same thread for some comic strip comedy.

OMG a SHARK

FEATHER DAMMIT.... FEATHER!!!!



(can anyone here draw well enough to put that idea into a comic strip form?)

R..

Go diving with Peter up there on the Peninsula Diver0001. You might finally learn how properly dive cold water for once.

. . .Anyway, here in Sweden we dive under the ice in the winter and we have cold water year round.

. . .If it’s a freeflow it’s usually because you have ice in the second stage or wing inflator. If it continues without instant shutdown you will have your first stage packed in ice and it will freeze open. . .

All these problems can be resolved by shutting down the post immediately and you should be able to do that in about 5 seconds. And yes, I can do it on a single tank too. I can always feather the valve if I need to breathe, and I do that on doubles too. Otherwise sharing gas with a buddy would be nice.

So as you can see, we deal with this all the time. . . And even if most of the readers on this list dive other conditions I still think this is the best solution overall and it has proven itself again and again.

Peter Steinhoff (DIR-diver.com)

 

[GrimSleeper]

If it's all old-hat for you, why can't or won't you easily teach it to novice divers? Else you must just be "trolling offal & haggis" all over yourself mate. . .

Why won't I teach it? Because it's a complex solution to a simple problem. Only an arse would suggest that, in single-tank diving, feathering made more sense than gas-sharing. And only an arse would suggest continuing a dive with twin tanks past the point where you'd had to shut one down.

What part of this are you finding hard?

How many 'modulations' of your valve did you do on your ... SIX METRE ... ascent? One? Two? Do you really think that, and something someone posted forever ago in a chest-beating contest, makes it a valid technique for resolving a real-world problem? I have, as you'd put it, 'OTJ' experience of doing a 22-minute (not including pO2 breaks) O2 stop while feathering the valve. It was hard work. And that experience, coupled with your own pitiful story of what you did, tells me that you're spouting utter nonsense.

Naf nao, as they say in these parts...

Oh, and I am a Scot. So keep your haggis comments to yourself.


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[Diver0001]

Go diving with Peter up there on the Peninsula Diver0001..

I don't know how much colder it needs to get to be defined as "cold" LOL .... but you know if Peter is dealing with certain problems "all the time" as he says, then maybe he should come and dive with me instead. I would be willing to teach him how to avoid these problems instead of using a kludge.

(of course to make it fit his sensibilities I'd have to think of a course that involved more talking than diving and then charge him an arm and a leg for it... but I'm sure I can manage)

Come to think of it. I should be charging for these posts. Here I am giving away wisdom for free again. Such a bad habit.

R..

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

No Bob . . .I'm not going stand for your "blame the victim" opinion. The only thing I may be guilty of in retrospect is doing a solo weightbelt lead check, assuming nothing can happen at such a shallow depth no more than 6m max, off the dive-ops dock in the warm crystal clear waters of Cozumel.

But a blown-out 2nd stage regulator cracking adjustment knob and assembly with a resulting unfixable catastrophic free-flow turned out to be an epiphany.

... so in other words, you assumed something and your assumption turned out to be wrong. That's not an epiphany, Kevin ... you have a history of such things. Luckily this time you didn't end up hurting yourself ... as you have on other stupid ideas you've had underwater. I prefer not to have to rely on luck.

And so, if I can do it on demand without any previous training, and just applying what I read out of some newsgroup --why can't everyone else accomplish it with proper instruction, drill & practice?

... because there are better options. Good instruction involves providing the tools that are easiest and most reliable to achieve the objective ... not thinking up crazy-ass scenarios to rationalize teaching some convoluted technique that has a higher risk and more serious consequences if you screw it up.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[lv2dive]

What am I missing here? Feathering from 6M?

 

[PfcAJ]

Gee PfcAJ --then tell us by putting words in AG's mouth explaining exactly what he meant. Oh yeah, I remember correctly --you weren't in that Advanced Wreck Class in 2005 with Instructor Andrew Georgitsis.

If this is representative of what you learned in that class, then I'm glad I wasn't there with "Instructor Andrew".

I cant believe you capitalized instructor...

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

What am I missing here? Feathering from 6M?

... most folks would just stand up ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[TSandM]

Only AG is tall enough to stand up and breathe in 6m of water . . .

I think Diver0001 knows a little bit about diving in cold water. He spent a weekend with us on Vancouver Island a couple of years ago. Nobody feathered any valves, though.

 

[Kevrumbo]

Why won't I teach it? Because it's a complex solution to a simple problem. Only an arse would suggest that, in single-tank diving, feathering made more sense than gas-sharing. And only an arse would suggest continuing a dive with twin tanks past the point where you'd had to shut one down.

What part of this are you finding hard?

How many 'modulations' of your valve did you do on your ... SIX METRE ... ascent? One? Two? Do you really think that, and something someone posted forever ago in a chest-beating contest, makes it a valid technique for resolving a real-world problem? I have, as you'd put it, 'OTJ' experience of doing a 22-minute (not including pO2 breaks) O2 stop while feathering the valve. It was hard work. And that experience, coupled with your own pitiful story of what you did, tells me that you're spouting utter nonsense.

Naf nao, as they say in these parts...

Oh, and I am a Scot. So keep your haggis comments to yourself.

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We've got a saying here of our own in these parts of Southern California, "Querer es Poder" (See below mate). . .

... so in other words, you assumed something and your assumption turned out to be wrong. That's not an epiphany, Kevin ... you have a history of such things. Luckily this time you didn't end up hurting yourself ... as you have on other stupid ideas you've had underwater. I prefer not to have to rely on luck.

... because there are better options. Good instruction involves providing the tools that are easiest and most reliable to achieve the objective ... not thinking up crazy-ass scenarios to rationalize teaching some convoluted technique that has a higher risk and more serious consequences if you screw it up.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Simple rationalization Bob (versus yours & Grimsleepers "can't do/too complex & stupid attitude" rant above): if the conventional method of "bleed & go" to the surface, breathing on an unfixable free-flow is easiest and reliable, then it must be consistently repeatable. Accordingly do you claim you can repetitively perform that method trial-after-trial on a simulated (hold down the purge) free-flow?

I will still choose to feather the valve and surface in control because I did it then for real alone and can still do it today (simulated or real free-flow).

"Where there's a Will, there is a Way. . ."

 

[GrimSleeper]

We've got a saying here of our own in these parts of Southern California, "Querer es Poder" (See below mate). . .

Spanish motivational posters. The perfect proof.

Accordingly do you claim you can repetitively perform that method trial-after-trial on a simulated (hold down the purge) free-flow?

Erm, yes. I've demonstrated breathing from a free-flowing regulator, and watched students do so, literally hundreds of times. I'd bet if you add in just Bob and Diver0001, it's into the thousands. Versus your data-set of one point. If you want to take the argument that way, you've so lost.

I will still choose to feather the valve and surface in control because I did it then for real alone and can still do it today (simulated or real free-flow).

Knock yourself out. Nobody's claiming it can't be done. Nobody's saying you're not welcome to do it all you like. People are just saying it has no value as a taught skill, because there are simpler solutions to your proposed problem.




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