Tank Valve Feathering in a Free-Flow

[GrimSleeper]

Feathering the valve is one of those things that get way too much attention compared to their real world utility. A parlour trick really. A bit like buddy breathing today, SCR mode, open loop breathing on RB, breathing from a wing inflator, breathing from a tank valve etc. You could say "tools in the box" but they are generally of such limited use compared to better options that teaching or practising them might actually be counterproductive; students get a distorted view of their importance and give them too much priority in the problem solving tree.

About the only place where I'd see any utility to feathering the valve would be during long (why bother for short?) deco with a reg that's clearly starting to act up, and you want to give it a go. Never really for back gas - you'd have to come up with a rather convoluted scenario for that.

Deco stops on advanced tech course dives would be just about the only place to teach that too, if there's nothing else to cover and the situation is calm. On a deco/stage tank it's actually easy enough, but it does tie up one hand and takes a toll on awareness even when done by a competent diver, so it's not really a thing that will replace proper gas planning. I've had to do it on a few courses, and I've also used it for some lengths of O2 deco with a reg that started to be a bit too easy to breath for comfort. However, you do put yourself in a bit of problematic situation - any emergency requiring two hands will have you either breathing from a free-flowing reg or trying to breath from a closed tank...

//LN

+1 from me. I've done it when my oxygen reg was bubbling annoyingly, I didn't want to swap regs and have to clean them up afterwards, and I couldn't be bothered with the time to finish the deco on 50. It was the easiest diving conditions in the world, drifting along a reef at 6m, and it still took moderate concentration to keep the feathering in time with my breathing. Nobody ever taught me to do it - it's the sort of thing you ought to be able to work out for yourself at the point where you're thinking of doing dives where you might need it. It's certainly not something that should be taught in OW courses.

Feathering back-gas? My partner tried that with a free-flow while wearing a single tank. Couldn't get the valve back open. Shared gas instead. Lesson learned. Stupid idea. MIght be safely do-able with twin tanks, but then - why bother? There's a reason you've got two regs.

Kev's just having one of his periodic weird trolls. He'll probably start dishing out the baseball writer quotes soon.

 

[abnfrog]

I'm not really concerned with what AG does (other than get booted out of a bunch of agencies) or what Peter does in a single tank. Sry Kev. I can't find a reason to do it in doubles even if Peter mentioned it once in some post on the Gavin list. A lot of thins can be done. That doesn't mean it's a good idea or practical or needed. Kinda like most of the things you post about.

whos ag ?

 

[TSandM]

Andrew Georgitsis. He is impossibly tall and has extremely long arms. Virtually nothing in diving should be measured against what Andrew can (or will) do. He is so far out the bell-shaped curve as not to be on it.

Why on earth I would EVER want to try feathering a valve with manifolded doubles is beyond me. That's what a manifold is FOR, is to avoid having to do anything like that.

I've done the drill in sidemount. I would not want to do it for very long, but it's available as a survival mechanism.

 

[Diver0001]

AG=Andrew Gerogitsis. He co-founded UTD if I'm not mistaken.

For some people he's kind of a DIR role model.

R..

 

[rjack321]

AG=Andrew Gerogitsis. He co-founded UTD if I'm not mistaken.

For some people he's kind of a DIR role model.

R..

Or anti-Christ depending on your sensibilities.

 

[Kevrumbo]

Andrew Georgitsis. He is impossibly tall and has extremely long arms. Virtually nothing in diving should be measured against what Andrew can (or will) do. He is so far out the bell-shaped curve as not to be on it.

Why on earth I would EVER want to try feathering a valve with manifolded doubles is beyond me. That's what a manifold is FOR, is to avoid having to do anything like that.

I've done the drill in sidemount. I would not want to do it for very long, but it's available as a survival mechanism.

Peter Steinhoff's post implies also to manifolded backmount doubles --if that right post is shut down because of a Primary reg free-flow (or wing inflator runaway which you're unable to initially & quickly disconnect the feed hose)-- your buddy can always feather that post to breath the reg if he needed to (i.e. he's OOG). The point is that although the post is shut-down due to a free-flow, the gas is still accessible for use in an OOG contingency by feathering/modulating the post valve as needed to take breaths. Conversely as another option, you can feather & breath that post and d'off & donate your bungied back-up reg to your OOG buddy (although I would exchange and switch him to feathering & breathing the post after a minute or so of recovering nominal breathing on my bungied back-up reg, before starting an egress and/or ascent to deco stops).

FYi and to recap: Hitherto I only read about the Valve Feathering Technique as related by Peter Steinhoff's 2005 newsgroup post above (i.e. never practiced or attempted it at all), and ended-up performing it the first time for real during the Cozumel 2006 incident.

 

[GrimSleeper]

Peter Steinhoff's post implies also to manifolded backmount doubles --if that right post is shut down because of a Primary reg free-flow (or wing inflator runaway which you're unable to disconnect the feed hose)-- your buddy can always feather that post to breath the reg if he needed to (i.e. he's OOG). The point is that although the post is shut-down due to a free-flow, the gas is still accessible for use in an OOG contingency by feathering/modulating the post valve as needed to take breaths. Conversely as another option, you can feather & breath that post and d'off & donate your bungied back-up reg to your OOG buddy (although I would exchange and switch him to feathering & breathing the post after a minute or so of recovering nominal breathing on my bungied back-up reg, before starting an egress and/or ascent to deco stops).

FYi and to recap: Hitherto I only read about the Valve Feathering Technique as related by Peter Steinhoff's 2005 newsgroup post above (i.e. never practiced or attempted it at all), and ended-up performing it the first time for real during the Cozumel 2006 incident.

I know better than to do this, but...

OK, so if I read this right, you've got one post shut down already, you've continued the dive, then your buddy goes OOG. Correct?

Questions arise:
1. Why didn't the dive get canned at the point where you had to shut down a post?
2. How have your two theoretical divers managed to live this long if their dives are such a convoluted mess?
3. Do you lie awake at night thinking up scenarios where pointless skills might be impressive?

A more reasonable flow of events might be - Diver 1 has free-flow, shuts down relevant post, dive ends. Simple, hmmm?

Or, diver in single tank has catastrophic free-flow, makes gas-sharing ascent with buddy. Simple, hmmm?

Do your pre-dive discussions with buddies include three hours of talking through how you might deal with things in a really complicated way?

 

[PfcAJ]

The only way Kev can come up with a reason to do this is by creating some circus of failures.

Free flow to OOG, then he's talking about donating the bungeed backup.

this is the dumbest stuff I've read in a good while.

 

[Kevrumbo]

I know better than to do this, but...

OK, so if I read this right, you've got one post shut down already, you've continued the dive, then your buddy goes OOG. Correct?

Questions arise:
1. Why didn't the dive get canned at the point where you had to shut down a post?
2. How have your two theoretical divers managed to live this long if their dives are such a convoluted mess?
3. Do you lie awake at night thinking up scenarios where pointless skills might be impressive?

A more reasonable flow of events might be - Diver 1 has free-flow, shuts down relevant post, dive ends. Simple, hmmm?

Or, diver in single tank has catastrophic free-flow, makes gas-sharing ascent with buddy. Simple, hmmm?

Do your pre-dive discussions with buddies include three hours of talking through how you might deal with things in a really complicated way?

The only way Kev can come up with a reason to do this is by creating some circus of failures.

Free flow to OOG, then he's talking about donating the bungeed backup.

this is the dumbest stuff I've read in a good while.

In the face of new, sudden, novel or bewildering ideas & circumstances, that's where your understanding falls apart --so it's far more easier for y'all --GrimSleeper, PfcAJ and the rest of the rogues gallery-- to troll, obfuscate, deride and dismiss.

"Wisdom is the living marriage of Knowledge & Experience", and "Chance Favors the Prepared Mind" --and such scenarios/contingencies however unlikely & "sham" they may appear actually do provide critical insight that when properly applied under time pressure, can get you and a buddy out of an overhead wreck or cave and back to the surface . . .

Or de facto getting me back to the surface on an OW recreational dive even by just feathering a single-tank valve alone. (Never waste usable gas by "letting it bleed out" if you have the ability & effort to control it). . .

[QED & word to ya muthah, Holmes. . . !]

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'll give you credit for tenacity, Kevin ... although you get an F in common sense.

You really need to run this idea of teaching this skill to OW students by Andrew ... and Peter, if you can manage it. I'll bet you $100 neither of them will think it's a good idea, even if they advocate it for higher levels of diving.

I won't bother to go into the reasons why again ... they've already been explained to you in the other two threads you started on this subject.

Hey, while we're at it, why don't we just go ahead and teach cave diving at the OW level? Or maybe techniques for rescuing a toxing diver? After all, none of them are particularly difficult, given sufficient practice ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)