"Swim-through" okay for open water divers?

[Eric802]

Because that won't lead to law suits...

Really trying to wrap my brain around a cause of action based on “My instructor educated me about the risks of going into an overhead environment. I did it anyway and got hurt.”

I’ve only been doing the law thing for 30 years, though, so maybe I’m just missing it.

 

[boulderjohn]

Interesting. I never thought “cattle boat” was a term directed at the divers. I have heard it used as a negative term for those operations who crowd too many divers onto their boats in order to make more money and disregard the need to provide the divers with a comfortable space for gearing up and sitting.

It has long been used as well as contempt for the people who use them. Take a look at the post to which I was responding. He said I would be appalled by the quality of the divers on those boats. One of those appalling divers would be me.

 

[boulderjohn]

Because that won't lead to law suits...

I think fear of lawsuits is the reason for the "just say no" approach. It became obvious to me as we discussed. Here is the sequence of the talk.

1. I talked about the issue with the manager of the dive shop with which I was diving before contacting the agency.
2. I asked the agency about the issue.
3. I was told that swim-throughs are considered open water and are OK to dive.
4. I asked why they didn't put that in writing anywhere.
5. They said there was no need to do that because everyone knows that.
6. How do they know everyone knows that?
7. Because all over the world divers go through swim-throughs every day, with the dive operators either allowing it or even leading it.
8. I told that to the dive operator manager, and he said BS--he had no such understanding. He had no choice but to allow it because if they didn't, no one would dive with them, and they would be out of business. He assumed that if anything happened to a diver on one of those trips, the operator would have a legal issue, but they had to risk it to survive.
9. In contrast, if agencies openly said it was OK to go into minor overheads, they would be more likely to be at legal risk.

 

[jadairiii]

Three days ago I had a young woman who was a pretty infrequent diver join me on the Lady Luck, and she did an excellent job going through a variety of corridors and rooms with me.

Maybe I just lack your discerning eye, but I would never describe any of those fellow divers as "cattle."

1. Yes, I believe that current instructional agencies, generally, do a very poor job at preparing divers to dive.
2. Unless I cannot avoid it, I dive on six packs. And if I have more than 2 divers with me, we will "buy the boat" if at all possible.
3. I think the above quote proves my point, while you were diving on large dive boat, you found only one diver (not including yourself) that did an "excellent job" diving.

And my last dive on a key largo "cattle boat", that was full, the only way I could describe the divers was "cattle" as they indiscriminately dragged themselves across the reef, kicking just about every part of the reef with their fins and dragging gauge counsels. Funny how they blame global warming for the dying of the reefs in the keys, yet when I dive out of the way reefs not frequented by "cattle boats" they are pristine. Wonder why?

 

[arew+4]

Really trying to wrap my brain around a cause of action based on “My instructor educated me about the risks of going into an overhead environment. I did it anyway and got hurt.”

I’ve only been doing the law thing for 30 years, though, so maybe I’m just missing it.

Because lawyers will say, you said something other than,"you are not trained to deal with it, do not do it", and are now liable for instilling false confidence.

 

[J-Vo]

@boulderjohn would you be willing to share your "Understanding Overhead Environments" specialty with currently active instructors?

 

[Belzelbub]

3. I think the above quote proves my point, while you were diving on large dive boat, you found only one diver (not including yourself) that did an "excellent job" diving.

I think that’s reading a lot into what @boulderjohn wrote that wasn’t there.

He provided an example of a recent diver who he dove with. He didn’t say she was the only one on the boat that did an excellent job.

I think the quality of divers will vary a lot based on location, and less on the type of boat. Resort areas are likely to attract a lot of vacation only divers. Those divers are probably a bit rustier than those that dive more frequently, but as was pointed out, even that isn’t a guarantee.

 

[boulderjohn]

@boulderjohn would you be willing to share your "Understanding Overhead Environments" specialty with currently active instructors?

Sure

 

[boulderjohn]

3. I think the above quote proves my point, while you were diving on large dive boat, you found only one diver (not including yourself) that did an "excellent job" diving.

As Belzebub said, you are really going out of your way to misrepresent me. I was a single diver on the boat. Another young woman was a single diver on the boat. She had excellent skills. I made no observation of the other divers on the boat, including the ones diving double tanks. It isn't my job to evaluate them, but I sure didn't see any problems.

 

[johndiver999]

I told you! "this is not a cattle boat", now mooooove over, you are standing on my fins..