"Swim-through" okay for open water divers?

[Belzelbub]

Nope.. he had no computer. Even myself, I had no computer until I went AOW. Where I stated my scuba lessons as OW divers, we were informed that a computer really wasn't necessary until we went AOW, so I have seen this before.

Depending on when you took OW, I find this strange. This was probably the attitude a long time ago, but most modern courses introduce computers very early. At a minimum, the shop is missing an opportunity to sell/rent computers to new divers.

More importantly, there is more to a dive computer than tracking NDL. I do agree that in most cases with new divers, the dives are going to be gas limited. I did lots of dives before getting my first dive computers. One thing that I noticed on that first dive with a computer is that I should slow down my ascent a bit. I wasn't rocketing to the surface, but probably going a bit faster than my computer liked.

A new diver is also probably more likely to have an unintended excursion, such as going a little deeper or staying a little longer than originally planned. Might be a non-issue, but better to be alerted to that in the water than when logging their dive topside.

 

[OMyMyOHellYes]

Depending on when you took OW, I find this strange. This was probably the attitude a long time ago, but most modern courses introduce computers very early. At a minimum, the shop is missing an opportunity to sell/rent computers to new divers.

More importantly, there is more to a dive computer than tracking NDL. I do agree that in most cases with new divers, the dives are going to be gas limited. I did lots of dives before getting my first dive computers. One thing that I noticed on that first dive with a computer is that I should slow down my ascent a bit. I wasn't rocketing to the surface, but probably going a bit faster than my computer liked.

A new diver is also probably more likely to have an unintended excursion, such as going a little deeper or staying a little longer than originally planned. Might be a non-issue, but better to be alerted to that in the water than when logging their dive topside.

If newly certified (like this week) and just jumping off the back of the resort boat and following the DM, trusting that they would never let any ill-luck befall them, and not knowing any better, then it happens. A lot. Even if they didn't finish OW on this last Monday morning.

My mud-puddle OW course was limited to kinda (paraphrasing) "No, we don't teach tables. That's an optional part of the book. Eventually if you do much diving, you will get a computer and learn how to use it". Really. That was about what I took away. The instructor may have SAID more, but that was all I took out of the class. Four quick babatisms in that mud and I was a certificated "autonomous diver", getting on a southbound plane a month later. I got an expensive fancy wrist computer with the "Instructor" (!!!) blue band anyway before my first experience doing any diving way down south. Doing a quick hour long Nitrox class where me and the instructor were having problems with my computer, and then calling manufacturer support (rhymes with One-too or Bun-toe, depending) that it was determined that the unit was bad and a re-furbished replacement could be provided in 4-6 weeks - WAYn too late for my trip (thanks Adorama return/refund policy - with less than a week to boarding the plane, I quickly converted to a Shearwater fan-boy at LDSs.) Thankfully.

I think I'm gonna go polish a scuba bottle for the rest of the morning. 4-5 coats of carnuba wax makes them more slippery cuts down on drag in the water, right?

 

[Belzelbub]

If newly certified (like this week) and just jumping off the back of the resort boat and following the DM, trusting that they would never let any ill-luck befall them, and not knowing any better, then it happens. A lot. Even if they didn't finish OW on this last Monday morning.

My mud-puddle OW course was limited to kinda (paraphrasing) "No, we don't teach tables. That's an optional part of the book. Eventually if you do much diving, you will get a computer and learn how to use it". Really. That was about what I took away. The instructor may have SAID more, but that was all I took out of the class. Four quick babatisms in that mud and I was a certificated "autonomous diver", getting on a southbound plane a month later.

I need to keep reminding myself that path through OW (twice) is not typical. My first course sounds like yours, though worse. Only one (maybe two) dive was completed. To a depth of no more than 10'. Definitely not standard. I was certified, but definitely not ready.

My 2nd course was completely the opposite. Lots of dives in the pool, and the depths in the pool exceeded the depth of my "checkout dive" from the first.

I'm just trying to wrap my head around what you paraphrased. They don't teach tables, and don't really expect the diver to get a computer unless they dive a lot. I guess they are just expecting the "autonomous divers" to follow a DM around. As much as I'm not a fan of my first instructor, I will say that he did at least a decent job of explaining the tables and deco theory. Made that portion of my 2nd class a breeze.

 

[rgkv]

Surely something was taught about keeping oneself safe from decompression illness? Tables? What if nobody had a computer?

All the divers except him had computers, noy sure what lessons he ever received. first time I met him

 

[rgkv]

Actually when you volunteered to be the buddy to a new diver you took on the responsibility of staying close to him. Had you been properly trained in buddy procedures yourself, you'd know this.
In a buddy team or group dive, the slowest diver sets the pace.
When someone agrees to buddy up with someone having less experience, they take on the role of staying close and adjusting their pace.
If you were unwilling or unable to do this, you shouldn't have volunteered. That you did it the second dive and say you didn't enjoy it, well that shows that you still didn't understand the role.
I once spent 45 minutes with an underwater macro photographer. We stayed in an area smaller than my living room. I agreed to be his buddy. So that's what I did and had a great dive. I worked on my skills while staying within 6 feet of him but never getting in his way. I saw more diversity of life on that dive than most of the ones I've done.
I came away a better diver because I accepted the role and chose to make the best of it.
You chose to not to enjoy it. Period.
Proper buddy procedures require staying within reach with a new diver. That you don't know this tells me the kind of training you had. At least in this area. Lousy.

Take it easy buddy, at all times I was near enough to help, he just figured I should almost hold his hand. NO, I didn't enjoy myself, wasn't part of my plan but I did it anyways...I did enjoy my first dive, I was always close enough to see him, second dive, after he freaked out because I wasn't holding his hand was not enjoyable..

 

[rgkv]

@rgkv I would be a bit wary to offer to be a “chaperone” for a newer diver unless you are quite confident you are yourself very squared and able to help him in case of issues and to keep him calm/monitor him.

Some newer divers will need to have someone assist them actively during their first dives (like pacing yourself so they can follow, waiting for them to sort out their buoyancy, reassure them with ok signals, etc), and unless you can provide that because you are fairly experienced, I’d not offer that to a diver I have not dived with or seen diving before.

(All my personal opinion and feel free to correct me if wrong)

No problem.. I did it because I am a Rescue diver. I stayed close enough to keep my eye on him and we were never in any danger. But between divers he was all over me about not being close enough for him to touch me at all times, Yes I am Rescue diver but I am not a baby sitter... He had a depth and pressure gauge, we were never below 60 ft, he has a OW certification. Nothing ever happened. there was never a need for me to help, he swam well, kept up with every one, as far as I was concerned he was fine..

 

[OMyMyOHellYes]

I'm just trying to wrap my head around what you paraphrased. They don't teach tables, and don't really expect the diver to get a computer unless they dive a lot. I guess they are just expecting the "autonomous divers" to follow a DM around. As much as I'm not a fan of my first instructor, I will say that he did at least a decent job of explaining the tables and deco theory. Made that portion of my 2nd class a breeze.

I think this thread's getting way off course, but ....

Don't generally like swim-throughs. There. Back on course.

Now....

The e-learning for OW had an optional section on table use. eLearning was the extent of the academics for my OW.. There was one question on the instructor's "final exam" that asked about "groups" from the tables. I wrote in "What's a fracking letter group?"

In fairness, until you have a computer, you can't really teach the computer. You could have rentals for the class I suppose. The puddle we were at was only deeper than 30' at one spot (depending on recent rains) and that was 35'. And I was in the day and a half "BECOME A CERTIFIED DIVER IN A DAY AND A HALF AND DIVE ANYWHERE IN THE DIVING WORLD" course. About certifi-cation, not edu-cation. I'm sure if we had had a couple days' classroom sessions, it would have gotten covered. I am guessing that the agency feels like it's eLearning adequately covers deco and DCS. I could reguripuke the correct answer on a multiple choice quiz without understanding....

The water instructor's counsel was to set up your computer right, if/when you get one in your hands, and then do what it says... But no hands on experience or exposure in the class. I had bought a second-hand Oceanic Geo 2 as a backup and got a new battery in it, but never was able to figure out how to use it. The Suunto was clusterfied disaster. The Perdix was great; the Teric was more complicated and confusing, but did OK as a backup. All I really understood on the first trip south was remaining pressure in the tank, NDL left, and when that instructor took us close to NDL on my deep, deep training dive and that the exceptionally slow ascent drove me into a red deco mode briefly. After downloading to my Surface pad (ironic, no?) I got to be amazed by the pretty graphs.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

No problem.. I did it because I am a Rescue diver. I stayed close enough to keep my eye on him and we were never in any danger. But between divers he was all over me about not being close enough for him to touch me at all times, Yes I am Rescue diver but I am not a baby sitter... He had a depth and pressure gauge, we were never below 60 ft, he has a OW certification. Nothing ever happened. there was never a need for me to help, he swam well, kept up with every one, as far as I was concerned he was fine..

Then you had no business offering to buddy up with him. Lots of people have a card that says "Rescue Diver" and it's not impressive. It would have been more impressive if you actually acted like a proper buddy. Not just keeping an eye on him and essentially letting him fend for himself.
This kind of stuff is why new divers say screw it after a few dives and find another hobby.
It's not being a baby sitter sticking close to a new diver. It's being a decent person.
With the attitude you have, you should get a solo cert and let people who are willing to really help out new divers be the buddy.

 

[stretchthepenn]

manufacturer support (rhymes with One-too or Bun-toe, depending)

I spoke to a Finn one time, and I asked him how to pronounce the brand name. It's sue-EN-toe, with a "hard N."

 

[rgkv]

Then you had no business offering to buddy up with him. Lots of people have a card that says "Rescue Diver" and it's not impressive. It would have been more impressive if you actually acted like a proper buddy. Not just keeping an eye on him and essentially letting him fend for himself.
This kind of stuff is why new divers say screw it after a few dives and find another hobby.
It's not being a baby sitter sticking close to a new diver. It's being a decent person.
With the attitude you have, you should get a solo cert and let people who are willing to really help out new divers be the buddy.

No.. I would say, and it is one of the reasons I walked away from a dive shop, you have an attitude that drives people away. Rescue diver is only part of what I am and the story I told was supposed to be just a conversation. I said I didn't enjoy it because I didn't go on the dive other than to just enjoy myself, I decided to help because I can and it changed my day. You sir need to take a pill