Sport Chalet Instruction...new rules

[MXGratefulDiver]

Why would it be useless? It calculates your current SAC at that depth and then it will display the remaining bottom time by what limits you: gas supply or ndl. That it sounds an alarm at a preset limit makes it a valuable fail safe as well.

Well, in my experience what it does is cause people to learn how to rely on their computer to tell them what to do, rather than practice dive planning as they were taught in OW.

While I concede your point that computers can be used as a learning tool, learning how to simply trust them to plan your dive for you isn't a good thing. And since we're discussing "realities" here, let's look at both the positives and negatives of how a majority of people actually dive ... as opposed to how they're taught to dive.

I'm not at all opposed to people learning how to use their computers properly ... quite the opposite. On the other hand, what I've observed is that a majority of people who use air integrated computers never "plan their dive and dive their plan" ... they learn instead to just follow the numbers without making an effort to understand what those numbers really mean ...

... and if (when) they experience a computer failure, then what?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[The Chairman]

Mike,

You work only in PSI, I integrate minutes as well. I guess it's only useless if you make it so. It's easy enough to see that if I am at 60 feet that I will personally need 9 minutes to ascend. So if I start to the surface with 20 minutes of gas left, there is no way in hell that I don't have enough for me and my buddy.

Now, should I develop some task loading, like doing a search and recovery, where my focus is primarily on finding a lost diver, then I find this incredibly simple to make decisions on the fly. Since I may also be narced, I am using the far more stable circuitry of the computer to help me make these decisions.

But like BCs or the Reg you use, this is ultimately up to your personal preference.

 

[The Chairman]

I'm not at all opposed to people learning how to use their computers properly ... quite the opposite.

Unfortunately Bob,

Most instructors, with their "head in the sand" mentality refuse to teach proper computer use for various reasons. They focus on pounding home those stinking tables which are destined to be lost or filed away as "useless trivia" for the preponderance of divers. We need to be teaching them to use the tools that they will be diving with. It's obvious that they really WON'T dive with tables, so let's try something different.

Let's go back to the car analogy. You DON'T have to learn how to drive a stick shift in order to become a licensed operator. Does it help? I required that both of my kids master the vagaries of the standard transmission before they were allowed to go for their operator's license. The result? My daughter managed to flip my Nissan Truck going UNDER 30 mile an hour. In reality, that skill set that I held so dear did little to help her avoid this accident which resulted in permanent scarring for her and a broken foot for my son.

The funny thing? For the first time since I was 12, I don't own a vehicle with standard transmission. No, I don't really miss it either. Now if they would only calibrate that fuel tank in GALLONS rather than fractions.

 

[The Chairman]

Turn pressure is another matter but an important on some dives and one that the computer is also no help with.

I forgot to cover this. Mike, my Oceanic has a programmable "turn alarm" built into it. Just another fail safe for me to use.

Also, the subject of a transmitter came up. I always travel with a spare. They are incredibly easy to jack out and back in. I keep fresh batteries too just like I do for my flashlights. I don't wait for them to fail to change them either. That's just nutso!

 

[amascuba]

The problem with teaching computers is that no two different models are alike. So you teach your students how to use x model computer and then they rent or buy y model computer and it doesn't have the same interface, it uses different models, it lacks features, etc. As Bob also stated it makes the student to reliant on the computer. What happens when the computer dies during a dive? Will the student be competent enough know where they are with nitrogen loading ?

Unfortunately Bob,

Most instructors, with their "head in the sand" mentality refuse to teach proper computer use for various reasons. They focus on pounding home those stinking tables which are destined to be lost or filed away as "useless trivia" for the preponderance of divers. We need to be teaching them to use the tools that they will be diving with. It's obvious that they really WON'T dive with tables, so let's try something different.

Let's go back to the car analogy. You DON'T have to learn how to drive a stick shift in order to become a licensed operator. Does it help? I required that both of my kids master the vagaries of the standard transmission before they were allowed to go for their operator's license. The result? My daughter managed to flip my Nissan Truck going UNDER 30 mile an hour. In reality, that skill set that I held so dear did little to help her avoid this accident which resulted in permanent scarring for her and a broken foot for my son.

The funny thing? For the first time since I was 12, I don't own a vehicle with standard transmission. No, I don't really miss it either. Now if they would only calibrate that fuel tank in GALLONS rather than fractions.

 

[The Chairman]

The problem with teaching computers is that no two different models are alike.

You are confusing the mechanics of the DC for the skills utilised in diivng one. The instruction books can tell you how to turn your PC on. Applying the data to your dive is quite another matter.

Will the student be competent enough know where they are with nitrogen loading ?

Only if you TEACH them. If you put your head in the sand about teaching them how to use their tool of choice, then they will just have to GUESS their way through it.

 

[SparticleBrane]

Most instructors, with their "head in the sand" mentality refuse to teach proper computer use for various reasons. They focus on pounding home those stinking tables which are destined to be lost or filed away as "useless trivia" for the preponderance of divers. We need to be teaching them to use the tools that they will be diving with. It's obvious that they really WON'T dive with tables, so let's try something different.

Why is this something the instructors should teach? If the teach tables and the students truly understand where the tables are coming from, the ideas from the tables are easily applied to using a computer, especially if the students read the manual for the computer. Is it too much to ask for someone to read a manual instead of having their instructor hold their hand and coddle them the whole time?

 

[amascuba]

Only if you TEACH them. If you put your head in the sand about teaching them how to use their tool of choice, then they will just have to GUESS their way through it.

Can you explain how you teach students how to use computers and not be reliant on them in the event of a failure?

 

[Jorbar1551]

Why is this something the instructors should teach? If the teach tables and the students truly understand where the tables are coming from, the ideas from the tables are easily applied to using a computer, especially if the students read the manual for the computer. Is it too much to ask for someone to read a manual instead of having their instructor hold their hand and coddle them the whole time?

i just got my computer a couple weeks ago and have not read the manual for it. i brought it down to go freediving yesterday so i was only using it in the depth gauge mode. although it worked fine, i forgot to program the time and get it out of metric mode. i do think most people are too stupid/busy/arrogent/etc to spend an hour at the most reading the manual to understand their own piece of equipment.

 

[Ann Marie]

I have seen a couple of posters ask what happens when a computer fails so I thought that I would address this:

If ANY piece of equipment fails I teach my students to end the dive, safely ascend and make a safety stop if possible.

I don't care if that piece of equipment is a fin strap, a computer, or a regulator. Diving accidents seem to occur because the victim failed to correct a problem and things snowballed from there.

SparticleBrane, if people would read manuals then as instructors we wouldn't have to teach the tables, the students would have already read the instructions for the table and we could then spend that extra time on other instruction.