Split Fin Bashing?

[MXGratefulDiver]

I do not know a single fish off the top of my head that has a "split" fin. All the fish you mention have a fin akin to a force fin, NOT a split fin...

I think ... since we're not built like fish ... that whole side of the debate is rather irrelevant. But, there are a couple of interesting fish right here in our local waters you should be familiar with ...

Granted, they have thin transparent membranes between those splits, but they are nothing like a Force Fin ... nor do they need to be like anything a human would require for propulsion.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[victorzamora]

Neither of those fish have any characteristics of anything similar to splits OR Force Fins on any fin that matters in terms of propulsion.......what's your point with those pictures?

Also, and here's the more important one, what fish use IS a great indicator for what humans may or may not need. Evolution is incredibly good at creating incredibly efficient designs....the fluid dynamics of an efficient fish fin are the same as those used for divers. However, the parameters around the design ARE different than that needed for humans.....but plenty of useful data can be taken from fish and the "design parameters" evolution shaped them around.

 

[Hank49]

Neither of those fish have any characteristics of anything similar to splits OR Force Fins on any fin that matters in terms of propulsion.......what's your point with those pictures?

I think the pictures are to bring some humour to an over discussed, useless debate. It's even more funny that people get angry over criticism of what fins they wear. The fact is, if you're not wearing long blade carbons, you're a lizard anyway.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

I started with Mares Quatros. I dived happily with them until the arthritis in my knees and ankles forced me to try other options. My choice comes down to what will allow me to continue to dive safely. I purchased a pair of V16's a couple years ago to get lighter fins for travel. Unfortunately even they are too stiff for my joints now.

I can and have used my Oceanic V12 splits in heavy current. Only 4 of the 10 divers in the water managed to get back to the boat against the current. 3 of us where using splits and I am not sure about the4th. I do know that the vast majority of the unsuccessful ones were wearing paddles and they were all younger than us and very experienced divers as well.

I am NOT a siltfish. I travel close to the bottom most of the time looking for small critters. I check myself regularly and have a buddy that will make sure I know if I do silt. The ones in our dive group who silt the most wear paddles.

I personally think the silting is caused by other issues than the fin. Most of the silting I see is because people just don't care and can't be bothered with situational awareness. Sure it takes a bit of effort but once you work on it ... it becomes second nature.

In the end what matters is that you have the gear that is right for you. There is NO one size fits all solution to dive gear.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Neither of those fish have any characteristics of anything similar to splits OR Force Fins on any fin that matters in terms of propulsion.......what's your point with those pictures?

Also, and here's the more important one, what fish use IS a great indicator for what humans may or may not need. Evolution is incredibly good at creating incredibly efficient designs....the fluid dynamics of an efficient fish fin are the same as those used for divers. However, the parameters around the design ARE different than that needed for humans.....but plenty of useful data can be taken from fish and the "design parameters" evolution shaped them around.

... my point is that using fish as a model is pretty worthless, and it's absurd to suggest that "fluid dynamics of an efficient fish fin are the same as those used for divers." We are not fish ... fish don't move around by kicking their legs like we do. Fish come with all manner of differently shaped fins ... which have evolved specifically to accommodate the size, shape, environment, and feeding habits of that particular fish ... none of which even remotely resemble how humans move themselves through water.

Why not apply that concept to sea turtles? At least, like us, a turtle comes with limbs. Should we use their method of propulsion as a model for humans? After all, turtles have a zillion years of "design parameters" evolution shaped around them.

[video=youtube;qC5mHQMn79Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC5mHQMn79Y[/video]

A better idea would be to use what works for you and don't presume to tell others what they should be using. Every fin on the market comes with advantages and drawbacks ... and those that matter to you may not matter at all to someone else.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[nimoh]

I think ... since we're not built like fish ... that whole side of the debate is rather irrelevant. But, there are a couple of interesting fish right here in our local waters you should be familiar with ...

Granted, they have thin transparent membranes between those splits, but they are nothing like a Force Fin ... nor do they need to be like anything a human would require for propulsion.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I agree, and I'm the one that steered this conversation down the path of "fish with splits" based on an idea that just popped into my head.

However, now you have me wondering why there are no manufacturers making fins with multiple splits

 

[Hank49]

I agree, and I'm the one that steered this conversation down the path of "fish with splits" based on an idea that just popped into my head.

However, now you have me wondering why there are no manufacturers making fins with multiple splits

The next step is to make wetsuits that are filled with gel or to make your body shape match the fin type, or "tail" that you're sporting…and what you'd like to do. Not all fish are build for speed. Many are the "bolt and hole up" types. Even large snappers and grouper. Oh the possibilities…..I'm gonna quit shrimp farming and get into this wetsuit/find combo design….and maybe start smoking weed again….

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I agree, and I'm the one that steered this conversation down the path of "fish with splits" based on an idea that just popped into my head.

However, now you have me wondering why there are no manufacturers making fins with multiple splits

Perhaps someday they will emulate those fish by creating a lightweight fin with a series of spines linking a thin membrane. While it would have some advantages, I imagine that costs and materials might be a reason why they haven't done it yet. Unlike fish, humans need to purchase their fins ... and a great many decisions around equipment design have less to do with efficiency than they do manufacturing costs and profit margins ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[boulderjohn]

... my point is that using fish as a model is pretty worthless, and it's absurd to suggest that "fluid dynamics of an efficient fish fin are the same as those used for divers." We are not fish ... fish don't move around by kicking their legs like we do.

This is reminiscent of the oft-referenced concept that according to the laws of physics, the bumble bee cannot fly. The supposed story on which that idea was based may not even have occurred, making the story a complete fabrication, but even if the story behind it is true, the concept is not. According to the story, some guy did some quick calculations and determined that the bumble bee cannot fly because its wings do not provide enough lift, but only if the bumble bee were a fixed wing aircraft. The bumble bee is not a fixed wing aircraft. Its wings move in a manner our engineers would almost certainly not be able to replicate on a mechanical device.

As Bob said, fish propulsion is very different from human propulsion, so there is no reason to expect the fin shape that works best with one to work best with the other.

 

[mdb]

I have at least six pairs of fins in my dive locker; original Scuba pro jets, Aqua-lung blades, Mares Plana fins and Quattro, and, of course Apollo
Xt and Orange spring straps. You pick the tool that is good for the job.