Spin Off.. Is modern scuba gear more efficient today than 20 years ago?

[Walter]

Flawed?

Yes, flawed.

It’s just my opinion

No arguments there.

but it is hard to imagine that anyone would not consider today’s gear on par technologically with gear of 20 years ago.

Now you're agreeing with me. Some gear today is better than some gear made 20 years ago, some gear made 20 years agho is better than some gear made today. Overall, I agree with you, today's gear is on par (at the same level as someone or something) technologically with gear of 20 years ago.

Maybe you have not been out looking but many things have improved significantly.

I'm always looking. A few things are a little better. Most changes are cosmetic and no changes would require someone to take an entry level course over again.

From the materials used, manufacturing processes and designs used today are superior from the past.

Some of those things may very well be improvements that increase profits, but they do not translate into actual improvements in gear.

Just because you refuse (and that’s your prerogative) to recognize the changes does not mean they don’t exist.

I recognize the changes, but the changes have been almost always driven by marketing considerations, not by improvements.

 

[Teamcasa]

And all this time I thought you had no interest in this thread.

 

[drbill]

Have to agree with Walter, Dave. There are fairly well documented changes in materials in some products that actually diminish the longevity or functionality of the product but bring more to the bottom line. I think those who deal with such products know what I'm talking about.

 

[Nemrod]

Flawed? It’s just my opinion, but it is hard to imagine that anyone would not consider today’s gear on par technologically with gear of 20 years ago. Maybe you have not been out looking but many things have improved significantly. From the materials used, manufacturing processes and designs used today are superior from the past.

Just because you refuse (and that’s your prerogative) to recognize the changes does not mean they don’t exist.





N. Modern then, still good today, sure. I don’t find fault with people who love and use vintage gear or people who like the new stuff, the question was, is the new gear more efficient than gear made 20 years ago, not whether you like the new gear or not. I believe the new gear is more efficient and I for one like new technologies.

I am a confessed gear (and tools of most any kind) junkie. If I think it will make my hobbies, job or life easier, (much to my wife’s chagrin) I will explore it.

See, the reason I know it is not more efficient even though we don't have a definition for efficient is that I have it all from 50s outfits to the latest and greatest and can compare them all.

IMO, the most efficient regulator, possibly, ever made is the Tekna T2100, the original brass case model from 1979. Again, Jet Fins and UDTs have shown to be efficient compared to modern plastic fins. I am just not seeing the big efficiency jump, in fact, I am dissapointed severely overall in how little diving gear has developed and like Walter, Captain and Thal and as well myself seem to think, I agree that todays equipment is market and liability driven design, not function and performance driven design. There is as well a clear attempt to convice the unknowing masses that plastic and "composite" is better when really in most cases it benifits the bean counters only because it is cheaper.

Anyways, it has been a good discussion, thank you Teamcasa for splitting the thread and instigating the excellent discussion.

N

 

[Cacia]

can you give me some examples of new stuff that is, "indeed, really good?"

hyperstretch

x-scooters

carbon fibre freedive longblades

digital cameras

Ti Sunnto Stinger

EPIRBs, GPS technology

 

[Stu S.]

In Cancun and Cosumel during the mid '80's, the latest divers had colorful gear. One fellow had fins that looked like colored plastic rectangles on a foot pocket. A tutti-frutti of tropcal colored gear was all about. Jacket BC's at that time might have might have looked good in a magazine, but really weren't perfected yet. I was out of place with my black fins and mask.

Possibly, equipment design took a detour for style. My brother had a Tekna mask that was really good, but besides that, I don't recall anything technically significant from those years.

 

[vladimir]

I can't speak to equipment in general, but my personal equipment has improved. I would not have used the phrase "more efficient".

I now have a Hyperstretch wetsuit, which is a distinct improvement over the Hendersons I had before that.

My regulator has improved quite a lot. I started with a Dacor Pacer and I might have still been diving it 20 years ago. It was a brick--the second stage alone must've weighed a few pounds--and I definitely prefer my Atomic M1, cheap composites and all.

I was still sporting a Dacor Micro Brain dive computer 20 years ago, and I prefer the Uwatecs and the Suunto D9 I have used since, for their better displays and ease of use, and the ability to download dives to my laptop (which really is a jump in efficiency). I always considered logging dives a chore.

I realize it's an unpopular view, but I abandoned my Jet Fins about 20 years ago and prefer my DiveRites because they are much lighter.

Catherine, I am sure nobody will even question the assertion that cameras have improved. My Subal-housed D70 is ten times more efficient than my Subal-housed F90, and in this case, as in the wetsuit case, I can make an apple to apples comparison.

I have a personal epirb too; I can't say it's efficient because I generally choose not to lug it, but there is no comparable equipment from 20 years ago to compare it to, so I'd say it's an improvement.

 

[captain]

hyperstretch

x-scooters

carbon fibre freedive longblades

digital cameras

Ti Sunnto Stinger

EPIRBs, GPS technology

Other than possibly the carbon fiber long blades, none contribute to personal diver efficency only convience.

 

[Cacia]

I knew you would say that.

okay: snorkels have gotten worse.

I like silicone masks much better than the old gum rubber ones. Or whatever that stinky stuff was.
Black, of course.

 

[Walter]

And all this time I thought you had no interest in this thread.

I didn't, but then I saw folks I respect a great deal were posting here, so I came in for a look.

hyperstretch

It's an improvement as far as ease of donning, but it doesn't keep you as warm.

x-scooters

I'm not familiar with them, but while I have a scooter, I rarely use it and I wouldn't really consider it basic SCUBA gear.

carbon fibre freedive longblades

I've never tried them, but I do like long fins for free diving. For SCUBA, the ones I've tried are pretty poor.

digital cameras

They aren't SCUBA gear.

Ti Sunnto Stinger

Why do you consider them an improvement over the EDGE (other than battery life)?

EPIRBs, GPS technology

Thery aren't SCUBA gear. EPIRBs have been around a lot longer then 20 years and GPS came out around 20 years ago.

I like silicone masks much better than the old gum rubber ones. Or whatever that stinky stuff was.

Silicone masks have been around for over 20 years.